ceaser and victoria stillwell O.o

[selzer]

While sitting in the vet's office performing positive training and socialization with Joy, I watched Ceasar Millan deal with this violent Yorkie that tried to eat him a number of times. The Yorkie owner's problem was grooming. And it did not seem like Ceasar got very far either.

But then, how do you alpha roll a four pound dog. Can you imagine what the dog is thinking -- ooh Big Man, just wait until you let me up, I may get your hand, and I will certainly get your ankle when you walk away.

But whatever, I am not sure what Ceasar ended up doing with the Yorkie from the fiery pit. This poor dog in the vid up there is scared to death. I just do not think alpha rolls on a scared dog help. And when a dog tucks its tail, I do not understand the idea that untucking the dogs tail will inject confidence in the dog. Of course I have been guilty of doing something similar: "oh put your hair down, its a lousy garbage can for crying out loud." But I do not physically put the hair down.

[shilorio]

Originally Posted by Syaoransbear

It's on the SLICE network. I think it's canadian.

One time he was trying to demonstrate to the owners what it's like to give up a dog, so he threw their son on their trampoline and said he was worthless and they should get rid of him lol. I think he makes people cry in every episode.

hah thats to funny, does anyone ever watch southpark?? my favorite episode is when they make fun of ceasar, its hillarious!!

[AgileGSD]

Originally Posted by Syaoransbear

I haven't seen every episode, but the ones I've seen where he immediately confronts an aggressive dog it submits to him, and dogs that aren't aggressive usually respect his space when he comes in the door.

I have rarely seen his show and have seen handfuls of clips of him and can say there have been multiple episodes where dogs have tried to eat him, had to be muzzled for him to work with or had to be strangled because they went after him. He does not a magical dog god who dogs automatically become friendly and polite around.

Originally Posted by Syaoransbear

Not exactly. I think the more common dog behavioral problems are created by owners who spoil their dogs so that the dog thinks it's allowed to act however it wants to. These would be owners would don't like it when their dogs jump up on them or eats things off the counter, but let them do it anyway and just deal with it because their dog is their 'baby'.

Jumping on people and stealing food are pretty normal dog behaviors - most dogs will do these things if not trained otherwise. The theory that behavior problems stem from "dominance" is pretty outdated at this point.

Originally Posted by Syaoransbear

I don't understand what you mean by "". Does that mean you've seen the show, or not? I actually just finished watching that show an hour ago and Brad Pattison said "I'm really pissed off right now" 3 times in one episode, lol.

That guy is an . Talk about presenting really bad training and behavior information to the general public.

[Caledon]

AgileGSD

I agree Brad Patterson is an ***.

I used to go to his message board and someone posted videos about one of his training events. They looked very interesing and I could see how the dogs and the owners benefited. But, in one, a woman was challenging him (just by asking his background) while he had one of her goldens on a leash. He became very insulted and defensive and took it out on her dog. He tried to get the dog to sit and he wouldn't so he pulled up on the leash until his front paws were off the ground. Then while returning the dog to her he smacked the dog hard on his nose. I couldn't see what the dog did to cause this reaction. Everyone on the message board defended his actions, except two, and his supporters were very viscious. This is when I left the board.

I don't watch Victoria (can't get the station) and I do watch Ceasar. Some of his stuff makes sense, others I discount. It is amazing how many times I hear people say "I need Ceasar" when the dog is misbehaving.

[AbbyK9]

I use EEEEhhhhhh too...it works better than saying No, no, no, no no all the time... which looses its effectiveness on GSD's.... They are like "Excuse me? Mind your own business!"

I have to disagree with you.

It does not matter what word you use - whether you use an actual word, such as "NO" or "STOP" or whether you use a sound, such as ACK! or EHHH! - as long as they are used for the right situation (stop this right now) and used consistently. Of course, if the dog chooses not to listen, there has to be a consequence, not a nagging repetition of the word.

Telling your kids "No, honey, don't do that" and then having them do it again just to say "No, stop that right now!" and then again, "If you don't stop that RIGHT NOW I will ..." etc. etc. is the same as nagging a dog with No no no no over and over again. Either the word stops the behavior, or a consequence needs to follow immediately after the behavior happens again. Otherwise, it makes no difference what word you use, it won't work.

CalmLeader, whose one and only post to this forum so far has been on this thread, sounds like an advertisement of Cesar Millan ... or maybe it's just me. Certainly seems that way. And I can't say I agree with a lot of what he (she?) says -

Cesar Millan grew up with dog packs around him and developed a pretty unique insight into the psychological dynamic in dog packs, their social structure and how dogs relate to one another and maintain order and balance in a pack. He uses these great insights to train people on how to have a better relationship with their dogs by understanding them and addressing their needs from a dog’s point of view.

Cesar Millan has by no means a "unique" insight in how dog packs work. Others have studied the behavior of dogs in packs for years. Turid Rugaas comes to mind, who has published pretty extensively on dog-dog communication and how to read it and understand dogs better. Her DVD on Calming Signals is very nice.

I think people like Turid have as good, if not better, an understanding of how pack dynamic works than Cesar Millan - she just doesn't have a national TV show in the US. And at any rate, she's not controversial like Cesar, either. I have yet to see her recommend a dog be flooded for "treatment", or choked, or rolled.

Cesar's dominance theory and his constant comparison between dogs and wolves are outdated. Stick around this forum for a while and read some of the research on the dominance theory that's out there. Maybe you'll learn something that goes beyond "if the dog doesn't do what I want it to do, the dog is trying to be dominant and take charge and doesn't respect me as a leader."

He does sometimes get criticized for his methodology and approach of 'working with nature' but that is usually by people who don’t quite grasp nature’s basic concepts when it comes to dogs.

In nature, the "dominant" dog does not physically grab and force another dog onto its side to make it submit. Submission by rolling over is an OFFERED behavior, not a forced one. And, in nature, another dog does not choke a dog by a slip collar to make it behave. Well, not that I've seen, anyway.

I'm far from perfact but I try his ways a lot and so far all my dogs live peacfully as a pack. As soon as they start to bow up to eachother or growl over a treat/toy they get the EEEEEEhhhh soud and I take the toy away. Its worked for 5+ yrs. So far.

I am confused as to the situation you're describing here, as this sounds like perfectly normal dog-dog play behavior to me. Bowing up to one another is inviting play, and playing with a shared toy or even without one will have dogs wrestling, growling, biting at each other. Why is this something you purposely stop?

Of course, it's possible you're talking about a situation where it goes from good play to serious fighting, in which case having several dogs with one toy probably isn't the best place to start to begin with. But if this is actually normal play, why does it need to get the "Ehhh!" and the toy being taken away?

[LaRen616]

Excellent post Chris!

[APBTLove]

Sorry, but I don't see forcing a dog on the ground, choking it out, and holding it down until it's too exhausted to fight as a good way to train... Not to mention he can't even control his own pack. Ever seen their fights, since he as many pit bull dogs running loose in his pack? Turned into a free for all when a scrap broke out, no amount of "SHH!" ing worked.

Stillwell all the way, she understand dog behavior and actually takes the time to modify behavior and teach the owners.

[shilorio]

Originally Posted by APBTLove

Sorry, but I don't see forcing a dog on the ground, choking it out, and holding it down until it's too exhausted to fight as a good way to train... Not to mention he can't even control his own pack. Ever seen their fights, since he as many pit bull dogs running loose in his pack? Turned into a free for all when a scrap broke out, no amount of "SHH!" ing worked.

Stillwell all the way, she understand dog behavior and actually takes the time to modify behavior and teach the owners.

i agree totally!!

[ChristenHolden]

I do that when 1 dog trys to take the toys or treats away from another dog. Because they all have trhe same thing and trys to gaurd them and gets defisive. Its not play I'm stoping a fight before it happens. I take the toy or treat way for a while and let them for get about it then give them back. They learn to share or no one gets it.

[codmaster]

Originally Posted by APBTLove

Sorry, but I don't see forcing a dog on the ground, choking it out, and holding it down until it's too exhausted to fight as a good way to train... Not to mention he can't even control his own pack. Ever seen their fights, since he as many pit bull dogs running loose in his pack? Turned into a free for all when a scrap broke out, no amount of "SHH!" ing worked.

Stillwell all the way, she understand dog behavior and actually takes the time to modify behavior and teach the owners.

Stillwell is ridiculous. For example, do you ever use a crate for a dog? One of her classic shows was about putting an owner in the crate to demonstrate just how "Evil" a crate was! I think that show summed it up for me about her.

Did you ever see her handle a really people aggresive dog? A real "red zone" type case? yea, me either.