Which one(s) of you suggested herding for my non-GSD when I was complaining?

[codmaster]

That was too funny!

When we took Baron (now 2 1/2 male GSD) for his herding test. He LOVED it - racing around after the three BIG sheep in the pen. When one would break off from the other two he seemed to actually go and get it and bring it back to where the other two were staying. And the frequent (but not too hard) whacks on his muzzle from the trainer with the long flexible stick did not seem to discourage him at all (although they did slow him down a little from biting the sheep).

I got a real kick out of it when the trainer lady said to me as we left the ring "I LIKE that dog!".

This from a person who was not keen on doing the testing for our GSD group as she did mostly BCs and Aussies having had a couple of bad experiences with GSD's in the recent past.

[arycrest]

Originally Posted by mspiker03

... I have never seen livestock challenge a dog during an instinct test.

I have. The first one I ever went to was sponsored by the Chesapeake Kennel Club of Maryland. It was probably sometime in the mid 80's and was given by a lady named Jeanne Joy Hartnagel (she was involved with Aussies, wrote a book about them).

I had Tex, who had juvenile arthritis, with me and a ram went after him, knocked the living crap out of him ... Tex got up, shook himself off and went after the ram and finally got him under control. Tex, who was small, around 65 lbs, held his own with the ram and I recall Jeanne Joy saying he had a lot of heart.

[JazzNScout]

Originally Posted by AgileGSD

Why would you think he'd part Borzoi?

Jaw, head and limb deformities as well as the lack of pigmentation are associated with "neural crest abnormalities" in animals and humans. It would be worth researching the subject a bit as there are many issues associated with such abnormalities that you may want to be aware of. I would suspect the missing tongue and malformed head are more birth defects associated with something like neural crest abnormalities than due to an infection. Just because he has congential issues doesn't mean he is from a "puppy mill" or even that he was purposely bred.

What about trying trick training with clicker/shaping/all motivational methods for him as a "job". It will give him an outlet for his energy and offer mental stimulation (without having to deal with livestock ). Plus it's fun .

If you saw him in person, you would notice his rear and how it humps up and over like a greyhound's. He also has a bit of coloring near his rear and the curly hair of a borzoi. . . plus his long legs. Two vets have theorized borzoi or a similar hound. We call him "The Hyena" due to his body and how he moves. The Humane Society marketed him as a border collie!

I have never heard of neural crest abnormalities before. I will definitely research that. Thank you so much.

I'm wondering if he might like agility . . .

[JazzNScout]

The difference may be -- so as not to confuse anyone -- that the people I took him to do not do herding for sport, hobby, etc. They are ranchers with working dogs that work in Florida and Texas (they purchase, own, sell, and transport cattle). I am certain they don't go to events, they don't go to competitions, but the woman does train dogs. They take their dogs out in the pasture to literally round up cattle. Also, my photos of course did not capture everything we did out there -- I posted the ones I liked best.

Originally Posted by mspiker03

x 2
(that post should be repeated!)

I realize that you have no interest in herding (which is obviously fine, although I personally love it), but people may end up reading this thread, who are interested in herding, and should realize that this was not a normal herding instict test (and I have seen a ton of them). I have never seen livestock challenge a dog during an instinct test.

[JakodaCD OA]

personally I see all border collie in him,,wavvy coat and all, I don't see aussie at all.

I have seen dog savvy livestock go after a dog, when I was doing an HIT on one of my gsd's, there was a Ram in with the girlz, and he was not nice Trying to see how far he could push the dog, finally Dodge got fed up with it, and put him in his place and that was the end of that.

I have also seen ALOT of dogs, borders included in, that go into a pen, and have no desire to interact/even attempt to work livestock.

I also agree with the poster re; the aussies, I have two, my female is a herding maniac, it takes a tough handler (not me) to get her off sheep.

I think the OP explained it well, he went to a place with livestock, to see what his dog would do, and found out,,not much) I don't think taking him back would serve any purpose. The majority of dogs I see just introduced to livestock, if they are into it, that natural herding behavior comes out pretty darn fast.

[AgileGSD]

Originally Posted by JazzNScout

If you saw him in person, you would notice his rear and how it humps up and over like a greyhound's. He also has a bit of coloring near his rear and the curly hair of a borzoi. . . plus his long legs. Two vets have theorized borzoi or a similar hound. We call him "The Hyena" due to his body and how he moves. The Humane Society marketed him as a border collie!

I don't see any reason to think he isn't a BC. Vets often don't know breeds - I have had multiple vets who had no idea what my Belgians were. BCs have a wide variety of different colors, looks and coat styles. The "hump" and movement you talk about is not sighthound-y but the result of poor structure. It sounds like he has a roach back. BCs often have very long legs. The following dogs are all purebred BCs:







Notice the super curly coat on this one:

[mspiker03]

Originally Posted by arycrest

I have. The first one I ever went to was sponsored by the Chesapeake Kennel Club of Maryland. It was probably sometime in the mid 80's and was given by a lady named Jeanne Joy Hartnagel (she was involved with Aussies, wrote a book about them).

I had Tex, who had juvenile arthritis, with me and a ram went after him, knocked the living crap out of him ... Tex got up, shook himself off and went after the ram and finally got him under control. Tex, who was small, around 65 lbs, held his own with the ram and I recall Jeanne Joy saying he had a lot of heart.

Good for him! I have seen several sheep/cattle challenge dogs...but never in an instinct test (at least where we train). But, where I go challenges (with sheep) are seldom (also, we herd with the girls, not the rams; although I am sure Levi would love to teach a ram a lesson or two if need be ).

[arycrest]

Originally Posted by mspiker03

Good for him! I have seen several sheep/cattle challenge dogs...but never in an instinct test (at least where we train). But, where I go challenges (with sheep) are seldom (also, we herd with the girls, not the rams; although I am sure Levi would love to teach a ram a lesson or two if need be ).

lol - I'm not so sure you'd want to deal with a ram or not. About three years ago Slider was taking herding lessons and the group included a 250 lb wether. The bloody ram hit my leg at full speed, I grabbed onto barbed wire to prevent a fall, and I've been left with a permanent limp and a knee that often hurts (my hands healed without any problems).

Now I'm paranoid and wouldn't get into a pen with a bunch of newborn lambs.

[mspiker03]

Originally Posted by arycrest

lol - I'm not so sure you'd want to deal with a ram or not. About three years ago Slider was taking herding lessons and the group included a 250 lb wether. The bloody ram hit my leg at full speed, I grabbed onto barbed wire to prevent a fall, and I've been left with a permanent limp and a knee that often hurts (my hands healed without any problems).

Now I'm paranoid and wouldn't get into a pen with a bunch of newborn lambs.

Oh no! I'm sorry - that is too bad. We tried Levi out on cattle the other day for the first time. I have to say I was a little intimidated, Levi not so much. He was very happy that he got to use all of his power to move them.