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Barked/snapped at a stranger

15K views 124 replies 28 participants last post by  selzer 
#1 ·
Finn and I were at Lowes just doing some training and walking around. I've been trying to get him ready for the CGC coming up soon. Typically I don't let strangers pet him because he tends to get too excited and will jump up. So usually when we're out and about I just make him focus on being calm and ignoring people. But the greeter by the entrance wanted to meet him and I figured ok this a good time as any since it's part of the test, so I told her I'd make a lap around the store and if he was a good and calm I'd bring him back so she could pet him. So we walked around he did awesome heeled nicely stayed with me the whole time. Super calm the entire time. So I make it back to the lady and put him in a down/stay and chit chatted for a bit just to make him wait a bit more (he loves getting attention from people)..... then.. this guy comes by and "Awwhh can I pet him?" As he reaches down to pet him anyway -.- ... Finn broke his downstay sat up into his pet.. in the split second before I could say "no you can't/Finn down" (because he sat up) he went from enjoying the pat on the head to jumped back and started barking and even kinda snapped at the mans hand. He kind of jumped away from the guy, he liked jumped back towards me. Didn't last long he quieted down within a few seconds of the incident and laid back down.. for the split second before he freaked out his body posture didn't seem defensive or aggressive, he sat up so the guy could pet him he didn't look stiff or rigid he seemed really relaxed, tongue out panting like his usual happy self when someone pets him. It was like a good few seconds of petting before he flipped out. And that was the first time that's ever happened... like I said before his big problem was giving too much love back, jumping up licking etc... he's been petted before from people not total strangers though people he's met a least a few times before they touched him. Idk he's never gone through any fear period either so I'm not sure if that's what this is either.. OR because I freaked out because the guy went to put him before I gave the ok and felt kind of panicky at the moment before it happened and I wonder if Finn felt that and thought the guy was not friendly or something
 

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#4 ·
Thoughts are energy and it transfers faster than we can imagine. I stress on a clear and calm head as a handler. Some times these things don't have a clear explanation. Also, he prolly realized HE BROKE HIS command and his stress levels went up... maybe. I think you will be fine though. Just keep a handle on him.
 
#5 ·
Yeah definitely. I can be a a little bit anxious talking to strangers. And yeah he did have a "oh crap" moment when he broke his command. He looked right at me and went back into his down after the few barks came out. And it wasn't a nasty snarly bark but like a bark when someone's at the door type. Mostly concerned with the little snap he made at the guy. The man wasn't phased a bit though he was like oops guess not laughed and went on his way.
 
#8 ·
Also when the dog is in a "down" that is a submission position, so if the stranger just reached down over the dogs head your dog could have felt threatened. I would prefer to put the dog in a "sit" for petting. But I totally know what you mean about strangers just reaching out lol happens every day for me.
 
#9 ·
Aww yeah. We usually go out a few times but I never stop and actually talk to anyone. On very rare occasions if I'm feeling relaxed. At our class he gets loved on by the trainers and people that we're friends with there no problem. But I suppose he's just used to them by now and I'm pretty calm and confident when I'm at class when talking to others. Haha sounds like I just have to work on myself. I'll bring it up to my trainer though and see we can do what you did, that would make me feel more comfortable.
 
#10 ·
Yeah the guy did a total drive by pet which drives me nuts lol and that makes sense! The woman I was going to let pet him I was about to make him sit up so she could pet him but the guy came by reached out and then Finn broke his down and sat up and then made contact with his hand before I could say anything. He petted his head for 2 or 3 seconds before he jumped
 
#12 · (Edited)
it takes a great deal of concentration and restraint for a dog to be in a down stay (training stages)

do't have people approach or pet them in that position - it creates tension for the dog -- and then it depends on the threshold of your dog to endure tension

he sat up - movement broke that tension -- he was enjoying the pat on the head -- and then you threw the book at him and loaded him with tension - your verbal correction

in this down stay picture the dog is not relaxed -- he is plastered to the floor - feels compelled - concentrating - trying hard -- you can see the tension
a relaxed confident down has the dog offering the behaviour and looking like --




Nicholas learning -
 
#13 ·
I couldn't load the first video. But no the picture he does look a little tense I think it was mostly because I was telling him to look at me and stop licking the floor. We were in the back with no one was near us. But thats not how was laying down when I was talking to the lady. His head was up just watching us talk, he looked more like the picture below as far as body language. And yeah maybe I should of put him more behind me, he was kind of just laying down next to me. But like I said it kind of just happened
 

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#30 ·
this picture shows the dog relaxed

licking the floor could have been your first clue that there was tension and the dog did some displacement activity -- and then you want him to stare at you and you correct him for trying to soothe himself - lol -- and then some guy comes along - "makes" him fail and you are on top of it .... and the dog gets pissed - blah - vent bark bark

people will approach without reading the dog -- had he been down like your first picture there is no way someone should have approached him -- breaking his concentration

second picture you give is nice !
 
#16 · (Edited)
Leaning over to pet a dog is a really bad idea. Leaning over a dog in a down to pet it is an even worse idea. Some dogs do not like and will not tolerate a stranger leaning over them.

Most dogs really do not enjoy a stranger putting their hands all over their ears, eyes, nose and mouth. When I am training new handlers or at a seminar I will go up to several people and "face palm" them and rub my hand all over their head, face and ears and mess up their hair. The reaction is usually shock on the part of the people that I do it to and laughter from everyone else. Then I ask,"You don't like that, do you?" The response is always, "No, I don't like that." I say "Good, your dog doesn't like it either! Don't do that again." I find it funny to do it to the biggest guys standing there and watch their reaction.

Another thing that will set some dogs off is eye contact. Staring at a dog then leaning over it is a good way to get bit. It is also a good way for your dog to bite some one. Keep in mind, most people are really not that bright and do not know any better. At every demo I do there is always one person that asks to pet my dog. I say "No, liability reasons, he's not friendly, etc." I give a host of reasons and the response I get a lot is "All dogs love me, he won't bite me." Those are the worst people to try to explain anything to, they just don't get it.

@Milliegsd, you need to be very careful with your dog in public. You know now that he will bite someone. I didn't read what you did to correct the inappropriate aggression, but your dog should have been given a stern correction, one for breaking the down and one for the inappropriate aggression. You also have to be hyper vigilant with your dog. There is no excuse for a dog in training to break a down and certainly none for him to bite some one at Lowe's. You need to be very situationally aware and be sure to not allow this to happen again. Overall, you were very fortunate, this could have been much worse.

He is a really good looking dog, BTW.
 
#18 ·
@Milliegsd, you need to be very careful with your dog in public. You know now that he will bite someone. I didn't read what you did to correct the inappropriate aggression, but your dog should have been given a stern correction, one for breaking the down and one for the inappropriate aggression. You also have to be hyper vigilant with your dog. There is no excuse for a dog in training to break a down and certainly none for him to bite some one at Lowe's. You need to be very situationally aware and be sure to not allow this to happen again. Overall, you were very fortunate, this could have been much worse.

He is a really good looking dog, BTW.
Now I'm not trying to make excuses for him. I know there's no reason for any of what he did. I was frustrated. Because usually I don't put him or me in those situations like I said we usually go in mind our business and come out and the times he has been petted before he was always in a sit not being leaned over and the person wasn't being weird with their hands all over his face. So generally I think I was just in shock when it happened because it's never happened before and I'd say I'm inexperienced in these types of situations so I did not react fast enough. I just gave him a firm no he knocked it off didn't even look back the guy. He had his ecollar on but I didn't have the remote in my had because I was practicing running through everything without relying on it for the CGC. And yes I know I'm lucky. It could of been worse. So now I'm stuck between avoiding all people or trying it again. He never had this kind of problem he just had a too exciting he likes to jump on people when meeting them issue.
 
#23 ·
honestly I would only feel comfortable trying again at our group class. But then I feel like it wouldn't be the same because he's pretty friendly with everyone there even new people the show up. I'll have to talk to my trainer and see what we can do.
 
#20 ·
@slamdunc thank you though, I always do end up telling people he can't be petted for such reasons I just thought I'd work on him being calm and sitting for someone and I guess I got too focused on the person in front of me and really didn't see the guy come up, most people were being respectful and just walking by but there's always that one person you have to watch out for
 
#24 ·
we actually had that happen, awhile back we were at an outdoor patio and this guy shoved a two year old right in his direction "hey he looks like so and so" he was laying at my feet but I got between the little kid and told them how dangerous that is to shove a baby towards a strange dog they don't know. Finn didnt break his down he was calm. Later they came back and asked to pet him the proper way and he did fine even with the little kid. He wasn't overly excited nothing.
 
#26 ·
@cloudpump generally that's what I say too. I don't take him to be petted by everyone and he does a good job ignoring people as well. But it's one of tests for the CGC is sit politely while being petted. Literally the only reason why I practice it a few times. It's not my intention for everyone to pet him. Only that for the rare time he is that he can sit still and not jump on someone. Otherwise I avoid people touching him at all costs lol
 
#27 ·
When I take Inga to such places as Lowe's or Home Despot it is to be proofed. I do not let any strangers pet her. In general I heel around with her very business like similar to a drill sargent. Folks make comments like 'I guess I can't pet your dog', or 'Shes in training, isn't she?'. In passing I smile and say thats right. I'm not friendly, don't stop to talk.

Inga see's lots of strangers and children when I go to the super market. She is in a locked kennel cage in the back of my truck and I park near the door. She watches all the people calmly, running screaming kids and babies too. Folks come over to talk to her but don't try to pet her because they can't. She is calm and aloof. Shes sixteen months old and has come into her natural aloofness. I understand the CGC test but I just don't want any strangers petting my dog, its not OK. She learned not to jump on people a year ago. How old is your dog Miiliegsd?
 
#29 ·
typically that's how I do it as well.. I don't stop for anyone and don't look at anyone because I don't wanna talk and don't want to explain why they can't pet Finn. I usually just focus on Finn and carry on with our business. He's very good at ignoirng people is becoming very aloof to people. But we stop and talk and the person shows personal interest in him he can get a little excited. He hasn't actually physically jumped on anyone since maybe 6-7 months, but he can get a little wiggly butt and likes to slowly lean into the person petting him. Except there is one friend that I recently told can't pet him anymore because he likes to get him to jump on him to which I told him I don't care if you like it when he does it I don't. He's 13 months, so should I just not worry about the CGC then? I mean honestly I don't like strangers petting my dog either but it's kind of part of the test?
 
#28 ·
The forced petting is why I abandoned pursuing a CGC with my first GSD. He clearly was not interested in strangers touching him and he certainly doesn't care what titles, if any, he has. So I guess my question would be, if you don't want strangers touching your dog, is the CGC really that important to you? If it is, that's totally fine, keep doing what you're doing. But sometimes it helps to take a step back and see if you are doing something for you or for your dog. Good luck, whatever you choose!
 
#31 ·
Well before this, he enjoyed getting petted from people. He always got too excited so I limited who pet him and pet when, mainly just wanted him to focus on me when we're out and about. But he never acted like he didn't like, he never reacted the way he did before. I, personally, just don't like stopping for people. It makes me anxious. But for the test I didn't want to limit him from passing something if it was something that my fault that I could fix. If that makes sense? But if he now doesn't care people petting and he doesn't like it at all I don't mind not doing the CGC anymore
 
#34 ·
well , yes and no to some of the comments

the gsd is not to be mauled , does not attract attention -- so the basic temperament --

he sat up seeking out attention -- to get the pat on the head -- you say as a youngster he was so excited to socialize with people

okay -- French ring campagne trials -- you start your evaluation by presenting yourself to the judge

hello I am xxx.x.xx. and this is my dog x.x.x.x. and then you show the papers which record his statistics and tattoo number

the judge surrounded by a virtual committee , his interpretor and his scribe approach the dog and the judge will handle the ear and look to ascertain that the tattoo and the paperwork match - first test is one of impartiality

the judge is not a threat --

no equipment - no collars - you are given your first instruction and off you go
 
#36 ·
well , yes and no to some of the comments

the gsd is not to be mauled , does not attract attention -- so the basic temperament --

he sat up seeking out attention -- to get the pat on the head -- you say as a youngster he was so excited to socialize with people
As youngster, yes and even still up until it what happened he generally likes receiving attention from people when I allow it. He never looked uncomfortable with anyone before, he's never even so much as barked at someone when they come through the front door. He'll whine instead wanting to go and greet them. (He's on place when people come over)
 
#35 ·
@selzer Yeah, odd thing is just that morning we had a class and one of the ladies that I talk to there frequently (she also has a gsd), asked to pet Finn and she did and he stayed on his butt, took a treat from her and was fine and actually the week before that he greeted another girl too at class that asked and did fine, little excited but that was it. He does fine in class! Thats really the only place im comfortable with letting people pet him, IF I do let them at all. Thats the weird part. Never ever has shown any inappropriate aggression before this.

He's 13 months
 
#39 ·
Maybe instead of the cgc you can try for a German Shepherd temperament test. I don't know what it all entails. I am sure some people on here do. A couple of the girls from club went down to Indy a month or so ago and got their dogs tested. They said it was fun. But maybe a pet is expected there also.
I don't have advice on the lowe's thing. But if you were set on the cgc I would find out where they were held. A field, building. And then work within those areas. Shouldn't take long before you and your dog are confident and calm enough to be OK with a stranger petting in that place.
 
#47 ·
I mean I'm not dead set on the cgc, but up until the lowes thing the only part of the test he struggled with was sitting politely while being petted, sometimes he'll sit nicely and then other times he gets too excited and doesnt sit as still as he should be. He would try and scoot closer to the person and rub up against them or jump up a little. He used to be horrible at jumping when he was younger but now not so much, he still gets excited sometimes (hence why I was working on it because it's the thing we practice the least) I'm open to other options though!
 
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