nervousness is about to drive me nuts. - Page 4 - German Shepherd Dog Forums
 41Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #31 of 52 (permalink) Old 01-28-2017, 05:12 PM
Crowned Member
 
selzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Denmark, Ohio
Posts: 30,490
Quote:
Originally Posted by Castlemaid View Post
That's all pretty normal behaviour for a 10 month old. I agree with the lady you saw - nothing you share in your post indicates shyness or nervousness. Probably just going through a typical teen phase where he feels he is too cool for acting 'puppy-ish'.

When Keeta was still a young dog and I had her less than a year, she was like Appollo, hyper-focused on EVERYTHING! It just took time and consistent handling to get her to learn to ignore other people and noises and to chill.
Wow. Just wow.

Yes, it is pretty normal for a 10 month old.

DOGS DO NOT FEEL THEY ARE TOO COOL TO ACT PUPPY-ISH! Dogs act puppy-ish when they feel puppy-ish.

Dogs are not people, and they do not think like people do. They may give a look that one may mistake for embarrassment. Usually it is anxiety because the dog is uncertain if the owner is irritated or if he did not do something correctly. It isn't embarrassment.

Dogs have a range of emotions. But they do not worry that they are looking puppy-ish. That is anthropomorphizing the dog. It can be dangerous to do, and really quite disrespectful. Dogs are wonderful critters on their own merits. They make awful humans. That isn't what they are intended/created to be. They are wonderful companions to humans, because they pick up on our moods and body language, and will repeat behaviors that make us laugh, and behaviors that make us happy, and will often be calm and quiet when we are sad or angry. They are good at comforting us.

It is really frustrating.

You have to study the dog in front of you. With a dog with solid nerves, you can just work right through this phase, yes obedience and tracking are good confidence builders -- anything where the dog uses his body and his brain to perform tasks and is praised for completing a series of tasks correctly builds confidence. Some would force the dog to accept the overtures of strangers and others feel the dog can be aloof. Depends on the dog and what you intend to do with him. A SAR or therapy dog, probably needs to accept overtures from friendly strangers. A family pet -- depends on what kind of family, if you have a wide range of family and friends over often, then it might make things easier to have a dog that will accept overtures, keep working. If you are less outgoing, you may choose either way.

If you think the dog is weaker in nerve, than you might consider taking a break. Take about a month off of taking the dog out and about, maybe two months. Continue to work on obedience, and when you resume, do your best not to over-do it. Go to home Depot, but skip the pet store. Some of the time, tell people, "No, he's had a busy day already." The trick with a less confident dog, is to avoid over-whelming the dog. Build the dog's confidence with agility, nosework, herding, obedience, sure, but also by being totally trustworthy.

Being totally trustworthy means, you control the environment. It isn't forever. It is over a sticky stretch, if you do it right. Meaning, no one comes out of no where and bops your dog on the head with a friendly or not so friendly pat. It also means knowing your dog's limits and staying well within them. Taking charge of situations and getting dogs out of them before he becomes noticeably uncomfortable.

Noticeably uncomfortable, is noticeable to others. A dog that is hiding behind you, crawling up your back, or barking and lunging are indicators that the owner failed to manage the environment. Be aware of your dog's body language. If he starts licking his lips, yawning, searching for your car -- get him out of there, you are on the edge of having done too much. In fact, better to go to one place, and after a few minutes to leave for the day. Leave when the dog is fine and happy, and the next time he is less uncomfortable because 1, nothing bad happened when he was last in this situation, and 2, because he is with you and you take care of everything.
Thecowboysgirl, Deb and wolfy dog like this.

Jenna, RN CGC & Babs, CD RA CGC HIC
Heidi, RA CGC
SG3 Odessa, SchH1, Kkl1, AD
Ninja, RN CGC & Milla, RN CGC
Joy, Star Puppy, RN CGC
Dolly CGC & Bear CGC
Hepzibah
selzer is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 52 (permalink) Old 01-28-2017, 05:18 PM Thread Starter
Elite Member
 
cdwoodcox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,810
No none of them were limping. Which one was you referring to. The one I kept in as much of the video as possible is Apollo. Athena was the one laying around. And the long black haired one is Rosko.
cdwoodcox is offline  
post #33 of 52 (permalink) Old 01-28-2017, 05:21 PM
Crowned Member
 
selzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Denmark, Ohio
Posts: 30,490
Another thing, 2's company, 3's a pack. If you have 3 or more dogs, you have a pack, like it or not. Dogs will often act differently when they have a pack member there, than when you have them on their own. Some will be more confident/less likely to react with a pack member, particularly one that is calm and confident. Pack members can feed off of each other. It is something you have to study with the dogs in front of you. Has to do with pack dynamics, and it takes time to understand behavior of a dog working within a pack, and without.

Dogs can be perfectly comfortable within their pack and a bit out of their depth outside of their pack, often because when they shift their confidence off of their dam/litter and onto their new owners and themselves, there is another dog right there, and it is natural to derive confidence in another settled dog. Sometimes they do not get that boost of confidence that generally comes at the first re-homing for this reason.
Chip18 and cdwoodcox like this.

Jenna, RN CGC & Babs, CD RA CGC HIC
Heidi, RA CGC
SG3 Odessa, SchH1, Kkl1, AD
Ninja, RN CGC & Milla, RN CGC
Joy, Star Puppy, RN CGC
Dolly CGC & Bear CGC
Hepzibah
selzer is offline  
 
post #34 of 52 (permalink) Old 01-28-2017, 05:23 PM
Crowned Member
 
wolfy dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 6,231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deb View Post
To me he looks like he just lacks confidence. He looks up to you and back at your wife often for reassurance. I would be taking him out often and go back to rewards for ignoring people and staying at your side. Keep him engaged with you as he walks through so he's not worrying about the people around him.

Illustrative video. Yes, he sees someone and looks at you or your camera (wo)man, sniffs the floor as a calming signal. But at the same time he sniffs someone's leg and you pull him away with a correction on a choker, confirming to the dog that he needs to avoid people. You should have rewarded him or at least allow him to do it and ask the person if "that would be OK since he is shy".
I would take him places on a normal collar to avoid a correction and play happily with him. You need to engage him more than what shows in the video. He is just a teenager in an awkward stage. What a fellow trainer told me is that GSDs need to scan their new surroundings before they can focus on you. I agree with her and saw it in my own dogs. See, you know where you are but he doesn't. You know what you are going to do but he doesn't. He appears to be a nice dog, just a little insecure right now. So relax and loosen up yourself and enjoy him, have fun with him, wherever you are. Let him follow people so he feels kinda in charge. Maybe enter him in agility to build confidence before/vs IPO or Schutzhund.
cdwoodcox likes this.
wolfy dog is offline  
post #35 of 52 (permalink) Old 01-28-2017, 05:24 PM
Crowned Member
 
wolfy dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 6,231
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdwoodcox View Post
No none of them were limping. Which one was you referring to. The one I kept in as much of the video as possible is Apollo. Athena was the one laying around. And the long black haired one is Rosko.
I guess Apollo
cdwoodcox likes this.
wolfy dog is offline  
post #36 of 52 (permalink) Old 01-28-2017, 05:25 PM
Elite Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: E Tennessee
Posts: 1,121
I agree with Deb and Nigel--Apollo is not a high strung nerve bag at all. He is lacking in confidence and does look to you and mommey for direction.

It would be helpful to be able to see his face and ears more clearly, but I could tell his tail was up, ears were mostly forward, never pinned back and he became inquisitive about the dog food--a really good sign! If he's thinking about eating, he's not over stressed.

There was a point in the solo video at which he briefly grabbed the leash and I so wished you'd had a tug toy! That would have been a great time for some happy talk and a quick bite to relieve any stress he may be feeling. As Nigel suggested, see if he will play tug with you in public, that would be invaluable. Give him a pat and happy talk when he's behaving confidently--ears up, even a little forward, tail up. Never give him a pat to reassure him when he seems anxious, that reinforces the anxious behavior.

He definitely cues off of Rosko. There is a marked difference between the two videos. I'd stop walking them together. Apollo needs to look at *you* as his source of direction and security.

All in all, Apollo seems like a very nice dog with potential. He most definitely will benefit from ongoing obedience training to continue building your bond and increase his confidence. You've done a great job with him!
car2ner and cdwoodcox like this.
zetti is offline  
post #37 of 52 (permalink) Old 01-28-2017, 05:31 PM Thread Starter
Elite Member
 
cdwoodcox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,810
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfy dog View Post
I guess Apollo
No he wasn't limping. sometimes when they're just running around goofing like that they'll go into this goofy trot sometimes. Idk if maybe you saw some of that.
cdwoodcox is offline  
post #38 of 52 (permalink) Old 01-28-2017, 05:42 PM Thread Starter
Elite Member
 
cdwoodcox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,810
Quote:
Originally Posted by zetti View Post
I agree with Deb and Nigel--Apollo is not a high strung nerve bag at all. He is lacking in confidence and does look to you and mommey for direction.

It would be helpful to be able to see his face and ears more clearly, but I could tell his tail was up, ears were mostly forward, never pinned back and he became inquisitive about the dog food--a really good sign! If he's thinking about eating, he's not over stressed.

There was a point in the solo video at which he briefly grabbed the leash and I so wished you'd had a tug toy! That would have been a great time for some happy talk and a quick bite to relieve any stress he may be feeling. As Nigel suggested, see if he will play tug with you in public, that would be invaluable. Give him a pat and happy talk when he's behaving confidently--ears up, even a little forward, tail up. Never give him a pat to reassure him when he seems anxious, that reinforces the anxious behavior.

He definitely cues off of Rosko. There is a marked difference between the two videos. I'd stop walking them together. Apollo needs to look at *you* as his source of direction and security.

All in all, Apollo seems like a very nice dog with potential. He most definitely will benefit from ongoing obedience training to continue building your bond and increase his confidence. You've done a great job with him!
I wasn't sure if having Rosko would benefit him or not. I thought maybe he would see Rosko being calm and confident and he would pick up on it.
Yeah, Most of the time I would walk back and pick up a cheap rope and initiate tug when he was feeling it. But, I have been using toys for a lot of their IPO training and trying to really push their drives sky high. But we were using ropes to play and tug, but then I would bring them in and see them chewing on another rope they found. So I purchased these tug toys and have been using those specifically for training and putting them up when they're in super drive. So for today I just wanted to get the videos and get out. The more I build drive with the new tug of his then I will break it out in the store and hopefully his drive will make him forget about any reservations he may have. Keep that short and sweet. walk him for a few, break out the tug, play for a few minutes then let him carry the tug out of the store like its his prize.
That's my plan any way. But I want to really work on building his desire for the tug first.
SuperG likes this.

Last edited by cdwoodcox; 01-28-2017 at 05:44 PM. Reason: add punctuation
cdwoodcox is offline  
post #39 of 52 (permalink) Old 01-28-2017, 06:00 PM
Crowned Member
 
Chip18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Dayton NV
Posts: 7,188
Quote:
Originally Posted by selzer View Post
Another thing, 2's company, 3's a pack. If you have 3 or more dogs, you have a pack, like it or not. Dogs will often act differently when they have a pack member there, than when you have them on their own. Some will be more confident/less likely to react with a pack member, particularly one that is calm and confident. Pack members can feed off of each other. It is something you have to study with the dogs in front of you. Has to do with pack dynamics, and it takes time to understand behavior of a dog working within a pack, and without.

Dogs can be perfectly comfortable within their pack and a bit out of their depth outside of their pack, often because when they shift their confidence off of their dam/litter and onto their new owners and themselves, there is another dog right there, and it is natural to derive confidence in another settled dog. Sometimes they do not get that boost of confidence that generally comes at the first re-homing for this reason.
Man where does the time ago??? I could have used that "advise" about 23 years ago????

Three dogs are a pack is "precisely" what made me me, and subtract "7 months" of zero problems (that I saw) when I found out I had "issues??"
Chip18 is online now  
post #40 of 52 (permalink) Old 01-30-2017, 11:30 AM Thread Starter
Elite Member
 
cdwoodcox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,810
So I have taken Apollo with me everywhere the last couple days. Places I didn't even need to go. Where ever he can go in he goes in. We drove my wife to the grocery store and me and Apollo sat out in the truck. That was actually really good for him. At first he was super vigilant watching every person walk by or come out of the store. After twenty minutes he realized he was fighting a losing battle and laid down for a nap. Took him to two different stores today. He made friends in both. Now he is still cautious. But if I initiate contact with someone he will walk over by them and sniff them. Then they are free to pet and love on him or give him treats. Once he sniffs them and they pet him he will even walk over and seek out more attention from them. He's still superl aware of his surroundings but he is so much better than he was a week ago. He done better at club yesterday. I kept looking over and he was sitting beside or circling Jordan the helper. We was able to get some good obedience and tug in. Actually the obedience at club seemed to calm him quite a bit. So I think he may be alright after all. I at least feel there is hope for him.
cdwoodcox is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the German Shepherd Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome