Vet handling - Page 3 - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #21 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 02:07 PM
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I guess I should have concluded by saying ... I went back and held Varik while he was being sedated until he was out. I went to work and then went back when they called to say he was up and could be taken home. He was still a little disoriented when I picked him up. I went back to the crate area and got him out myself and took him out a side door.

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post #22 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by LuvShepherds View Post
Selzer, my rescue was extremely timid when I got her. I put her in a puppy class and didn't want to treat. The instructor said food is soothing to a timid dog, so I tried it and it worked. I was able to condition her to all kinds of situations by using food. I don't like it for training purposes, but it worked very well when I needed it for fears. It worked at the vet, for places with loud noises, or around a lot of people.
A dog that is very afraid, will not eat, even the tastiest of treats. I guess I don't like to introduce something, and then when I can't do it that way -- bloodwork, the dog needs enzymes on everything, the dog will undergo a procedure requiring fasting, well then the dog is expecting treats and they aren't there, so he is that much more anxious.

Muskeg, I haven't met a dog that you cannot just do the procedure without any fanfare. My dogs all trust me completely. No problems there. No trust lost. I think the getting something over with and not letting the dog get worked up into a state about things cancels any benefit.

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post #23 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 05:34 PM Thread Starter
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So I am slow at doing this: I should have done it all along, but I am teaching him a maneuver where I sit him up against a wall, then stradel him while holding his head.

He is almost 90lb and it is hard for me to restrain him effectively for a vet to get a vein. But I did this maneuver a few times and had my husband pick up a front leg as if to find a vein.

Maybe he will overcome this dislike of the vet, he has passed through lots of other phases.

In the mean time if he is prepared because we have practiced this maneuver at home hopefully his stress will be minimal.

I was previously doing a lot of judging about this like ,"I raised him right, he ought to be fine blah blah" then I realized he feels how he feels and my thinking he shouldn't feel that way isn't helping.

I am going with hard results: when I handle him slower and more gently and ask for his cooperation he will cooperate and not growl. When I tell him to suck it up we are doing it my way he growls. I can make an extra 30 seconds in my day to do it the way where he feels ok. If it stops working I will reevaluate. I am not letting him get out of the procedure I am just doing it a little differently so he feels better about it and I don't see a problem with that.

I know me muzzling and restraining him would be less upsetting than a stranger doing it so I plan to. I also plan to ask my vet what they might be willing to do to help me work up to him feeling more comfortable being handled by them but I don't feel like it has to happen for these x rays.
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post #24 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 08:02 PM
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Well, I don't like a dog being muzzled in a crate and that's a fact. Dogs want to get that muzzle off, and they can easily get it stuck in a crate. Then the vet has more to worry about because a stuck dog is a terrified dog. And yes, if you leave the dog at the vet he will be crated. Sometimes we have to leave a dog over-night at the vet, we can't muzzle them overnight, especially if it isn't a 24 hour clinic.

Also, you can muzzle a dog for a procedure and anesthetize them, but at that point the muzzle should come off. I worry a lot about oxygen and anesthetic.

They have drugs now that reverse the effects of being put under. You do not have to wait for hours to take the dog home. They can reverse it, and the dog will be able to walk again in minutes. It costs more. But I would do that rather than leave my do in a vet office muzzled and under.

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post #25 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 08:22 PM
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A dog that is very afraid, will not eat, even the tastiest of treats. I guess I don't like to introduce something, and then when I can't do it that way -- bloodwork, the dog needs enzymes on everything, the dog will undergo a procedure requiring fasting, well then the dog is expecting treats and they aren't there, so he is that much more anxious.

Muskeg, I haven't met a dog that you cannot just do the procedure without any fanfare. My dogs all trust me completely. No problems there. No trust lost. I think the getting something over with and not letting the dog get worked up into a state about things cancels any benefit.
I admire and appreciate your input. I've found rescues need the extra rewards and it's worked for me, so I will keep using it. Mine had a procedure and couldn't eat, so the techs gave my dog a lot of extra attention instead and it worked. Fortunately, she is flexible. Isn't it fun that we are all different and have our own ways of approaching our dogs? In this case, we don't agree, but most of the time we do.
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post #26 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 10:14 PM
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I admire and appreciate your input. I've found rescues need the extra rewards and it's worked for me, so I will keep using it. Mine had a procedure and couldn't eat, so the techs gave my dog a lot of extra attention instead and it worked. Fortunately, she is flexible. Isn't it fun that we are all different and have our own ways of approaching our dogs? In this case, we don't agree, but most of the time we do.
I don't use a lot of treats because I'm lazy and don't like pockets full of treat-bits. I don't need them, even with adult dogs I have acquired. Most of my dogs are very attached to me, and will put up with just about anything. But they usually prefer people with high screechy voices didn't exist. One of my vet techs used to scare the bejesus out of my dogs by doing that high screechy baby talk. Starting with a huge hello, and then she would say they didn't like her. I finally told her to tone down her greeting, lower her tone, and they would be fine. They were, she was surprised. That's got to amp up dogs. Most of them wouldn't go with the extra attention thing.

On the other hand, another of the vet techs had to do mitaban baths with Jenna when she was a puppy, and she and Jenna bonded, LOL! Jenna is 11 years old now, and if I bring her in for whatever, this tech will say, We're good and say something about those baths. These dogs do have excellent memories. I couldn't believe the one girl remembered me after 4 years and let me deliver her puppies -- she slept with me on the couch that night (before she whelped). Couldn't believe she was that comfortable.

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post #27 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 10:54 PM
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I'm not a treat person either. I only use them as a last resort. But they did work with that rescue dog.
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post #28 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 11:05 PM
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Part of me thinks just leave him there with his muzzle and he will learn to cope. Part of me thinks he will be horrified and hate it even worse if I leave him there with strangers.

Any thoughts?
I kind of just went through this.....but not nearly to the degree you are describing.....but.....if any manipulation, pricking, prodding or any other compromising situations need to be done to my dog....I believe it is in both my best interests as well as my dogs to be the one who applies the pressure on my dog...because there is no coping for the dog.....it is accepted without objection. I appreciate this cannot happen all the time with certain procedures at the vet.....but....if you petition them as to your participation....as allowable...I'd rather be the "bad guy" instead of others.


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post #29 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-21-2017, 12:40 PM
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So I am slow at doing this: I should have done it all along, but I am teaching him a maneuver where I sit him up against a wall, then stradel him while holding his head.

He is almost 90lb and it is hard for me to restrain him effectively for a vet to get a vein. But I did this maneuver a few times and had my husband pick up a front leg as if to find a vein.

Maybe he will overcome this dislike of the vet, he has passed through lots of other phases.

In the mean time if he is prepared because we have practiced this maneuver at home hopefully his stress will be minimal.

I was previously doing a lot of judging about this like ,"I raised him right, he ought to be fine blah blah" then I realized he feels how he feels and my thinking he shouldn't feel that way isn't helping.

I am going with hard results: when I handle him slower and more gently and ask for his cooperation he will cooperate and not growl. When I tell him to suck it up we are doing it my way he growls. I can make an extra 30 seconds in my day to do it the way where he feels ok. If it stops working I will reevaluate. I am not letting him get out of the procedure I am just doing it a little differently so he feels better about it and I don't see a problem with that.

I know me muzzling and restraining him would be less upsetting than a stranger doing it so I plan to. I also plan to ask my vet what they might be willing to do to help me work up to him feeling more comfortable being handled by them but I don't feel like it has to happen for these x rays.
Some dogs have the wind taken out of their sails once they are not around their owners. Some get even worse.

Either way, most people in the vet field HATE GSDs. They just do. As I say to them "Great dogs to live with, but classic herding dog needy control freaks". I really don't think they are that bad, and I see a lot of people in this field see a GSD and psyche themselves up before they even pick up the leash. They handle them badly because they are afraid of them, and unsure of themselves. GSDs are different from other dogs (in general) because they usually will not accept random people making them do something...as most dogs do. They are not the only breed/type like this, but they are one of them. They don't care about befriending strangers, and many people find this awkward (even offensive). They really don't care for being forced to hold a position and be poked with things! Most dogs do not like medical stuff, but many will tolerate it...and that gets taken for granted and them some. So the first dog of the day that goes "nope" gets called an a-hole/jerk/bad, when it really just wants to get away from something invasive or strange. It is a big problem in the field, IMO. There are a few people in my workplace who are like this, but in some practices it is everyone.

I have had dogs who were more than cooperative and tolerant of procedures/restraint, who still were treated badly just for having a GSD suit on. It comes from bad handling, and they do the human thing and blame the dog.

Be open with the doctor and nurses about your concerns. Tell them he may be better with you, you have no problem muzzling your dog, you would consider sedation, etc. This will help them relax = better for your dog.

Some other solutions: Counter-condition your dog to accept restraint and prodding. Also, talk to the vet about sedation. T
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