Which is the best GSD Line for Dog Intelligence? - Page 5 - German Shepherd Dog Forums
 119Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #41 of 144 (permalink) Old 01-09-2017, 02:31 PM
Crowned Member
 
Chip18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Dayton NV
Posts: 7,170
OP... I think ... you are "assuming" that a highly intelligent breed would be the easiest to train?? That kinda sorta makes sense?? But that is not exactly how it works out! Some of the worst behaved dogs are in those top 10 list! I used to think ... all the "Herder Dogs" were "all" horrible, badly behaved, obnoxious, barking, people biting, car chasing, wild horse chasing miserable bundles of fur!

And all the one's I'd seen were (like that) ... save for one! My neighbors, Herder (Dog) was now mine! She'd escaped the yard one time to many for him ... so it was off to the pound you go! Sigh ... while I had no use for her. I do rescue work, so (fine then) I'll take her and help her find a home. Aside from being house broken, she knew "nothing!" Puppy mill mamma "always" in the back yard and she would howl and cry for hours!!! My wife and I constantly for at least a year were calling animal control (barking and howling at all hours of the night!) I know the (owners) finally got cited at least once ... nothing changed! So that ... was the dog I now had in my possession!

I did nothing with her for a few weeks, aside from walks and outings with my dogs. And it seemed like well she was going to stay with me??? I'm more of a Bully and Boxer guy so all that fur (Molly) was not my thing but ... if the dog is staying ... then trained and well behaved ... she will become.

And ... it worked out great!! The dog was freaking brilliant! My wife was pretty much crazy about her out the gate ... she wanted to keep her ... but sigh ... I have a lot of "attitude about dogs/breeds" .... kinda of a "Show Me" kinda guy and I'd never seen a well behaved "Herder" dog around "me??" But hey as I say "Show Me" and Molly did ...yes ... I was impressed. I finally broached the subject of keeping her (it had been three months maybe???) Molly was still on the list. So we had just started talking about keeping her and then ... the phone rang!!!

A thirteen year old wanted a dog for X-Mas and saw Molly online and said ... that's the one! Of course as fosters we had first dibs ... but in as much as my original goal was to help her find a home ... we played it out. Maybe you know the kid won't like her???

Awe well ... sadly??? I'd done my job to well, Molly and the kid got along great ... only had one "Test" to pass. If the dog walks wells on a "loose leash" we'll take her! At that point ... I understood "Molly" was gone! The one thing I excel at is "training a dog to walk properly on a loose leash" (Slip Lead Leash) guy. So outside we go I explain a bit and hand the leash over and off they go up and down the block and "Molly" walks calmly by the child's side like she'd been doing that forever! Off she went to her new home, I'd done my job to well???

Had it been left to me ... I'd have kept her, but "women" sigh ... "Marilyn" was whining about break some kids heart at Christmas, if I did not want to place her ... I should have taken her off the list, before the kid saw her ... and so it goes. But we were heartbroken that Christmas.

Yesss .... so "Herder Dogs" are intelligent indeed and way to much work and effort for most people! That is the "problem" with the top ten for a lot of people!



And then came "Rocky OS WL GSD" my second experiance with a top ten dog! Him I kept and "ultimately" it worked out fine but it was a very hard bumpy ride ... many lessons to be learned there ... one of them being "two dogs are a pair three dogs are a pack" And if you have Dominate male dog number one and add Dominate male dog number two ... you'd best have your "act together!"

Had I seen problems ... out the gate ... well most likely ... I'd not be here??? I'd had at that time more than a decade of experiance with American Band Dawgs. APBT/Boxers and Boxers ... my first WL GSD ...no big deal?? Yessss ... well ... not so much! The first "trap" I fell into was the old "my dog changed thing???" We got "Rocky" at seven months old and for another seven months ... there were no issues that I saw???

And then one day "out of the blue" and now at a full grown 116 lbs ... "Rocky" attacked Gunther (American Band Dawg) and now ... it was game on like "Donkey Kong!!" Many lessons to be learned and I got the first stitches in my life every ...breaking up a dog fight!! And that crap ... was just round one of two! Ultimately ... I never had the opportunity to solve that issue! Gunther passed due to unrelated issues following the "fifth" fight and Rocky "always started them!" But you know ... lack of structure. He was given the opportunity and took full advantage of it!

Ultimately ... again in retrospect, my failure was caused in part because I was caught off guard and I was constantly "reacting" to "Rocky's" actions instead of "preventing them" ie "lack of structure." What I had done in the past ... had been fine but unbeknownst to me??? All my other dogs had been low rank drive dogs??? There place in the dog pack ... was good with them. Rocky was not willing to accept being dog number two (Never any Boxer involvement in the dust ups) without "protest."

Round number two was to follow H/A??? "I don't much care for company" was how or... first guest "ever" were greeted ,A cold hard stare and a low growl .... WTH??? But this time ... I was ready ...yeah time for "Pay" back! Ultimately we got it done, not that hard and it did not take force or coercion ... it did take "out thinking him" and "rules structure and limitations!" He does not have to "like" anyone but he does have to be "civil!" I guess all of that was seven years ago ... and "Rocky" is still here.

I kinda sorta outline how I got it right and what I did wrong on here. Get (R/S/L) right out the gate ... not that hard (if you know) and you can skip the middle part (figuring out what went wrong??) I don't recommend GSD's of any type to most people but that's mostly becasue the people I know and the dogs I see all tend to be fools! With rare exception ... there are a couple of "good dogs" near me and "we" smile and wave at each other from across the street! "I don't know you, I don't know your dog ... you keep your distance .... we will do the same" ... works out fine!

Well ... kind of a wild tangent here but these were my experiance with a couple of the top ten dogs, and more directly to your "topic"... as far as I've seen in the top ten list ... I don't see them making any distinction between WL and SL, GSD's?? Most likely ... that is an insiders thing??

Aww well ... I'm a "Boxer" guy also and the top 10/20 list ... is way to crowed for us but you know ..."we just don't care."

Welcome Aboard.
heroshepherds and BlueFalc0n like this.
Chip18 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #42 of 144 (permalink) Old 01-09-2017, 02:49 PM
Crowned Member
 
Chip18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Dayton NV
Posts: 7,170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nurse Bishop View Post
I would say a German Shepherd dog is not a breed for a beginner. Be able to commit to an hour of training a day for the first year. at least It is not a goldendoodle or a pug.
Doddle's are certainly not my thing but someone on here saw one at there "Club" event being worked and he said "that" one was a pretty serious freaking dog!

And of course no standards for the "Doddle" crown and I've seen some things about some of those dogs inheriting a lot of the "bad traits" of both breeds?? But a Pug ...well yeah for the truly lazy ... that's the way to go. Don't see how one could go from a "GSD" to a "Pug" however???"

But hey ... people do stuff ... my lazy clueless friends went from a "Pug" to herder dogs ... at last count the latest dog, has bitten the owner four times and strangers three times!! The last one ... I observed as they actually ... "de-trained" the dog!!! Yes ... apparently ... that can be done???

Dog came after me once ... I turned my back and he was going for my heels ...yeah that's not gonna happen!! I no longer visit them and there pack of curs!
Chip18 is offline  
post #43 of 144 (permalink) Old 01-09-2017, 03:43 PM
Senior Member
 
Nurse Bishop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 494
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudpump View Post
I don't think an hour a day broken up throughout the day is necessary. I know some who has 6 dogs that know basic commands that are fine.
Essentially being willing to spend time with a dog is enough. That's with any line. Or any breeding. A lot of us have working line dogs with many IPO qualified dogs in their lineage. It all depends on the effort of an owner to spend quality time with their dog. Be it training or hiking, or interacting.
And any dog can be fine for a first time owner. If they are willing to put in the effort
The effort--That seems like it would depend on what the handler wanted to train. Basic obedience, sit stay, down? My ten month old knows and is proofed in twenty six commands so far. Training is given while hiking, riding horses, in the farm yard among milling animals and chickens, going into town to a dog park to generalize commands under heavy distraction - by the way only when there are no dogs in one side. All this takes time and energy but what a joy it is. I have never had a dog this intelligent.
Nurse Bishop is offline  
 
post #44 of 144 (permalink) Old 01-09-2017, 03:47 PM
Senior Member
 
Nurse Bishop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 494
" Don't see how one could go from a "GSD" to a "Pug" however???"

I did not say go from GSD to Pug. I meant that if PeoPle don't want to commit to training a Real Dog and they want a Pet maybe they should not get a working breed.

By the way, my GSD sPilled a glass of water in my keyboard and now I have to coPy and Paste the letter P.
Nurse Bishop is offline  
post #45 of 144 (permalink) Old 01-09-2017, 03:54 PM
Senior Member
 
Nurse Bishop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 494
ZamP von Thermados was European and as such he and all his ancestors had to be titled and have good hiPs in order to breed. Thats why all the schutzhunds.
Jax08 likes this.
Nurse Bishop is offline  
post #46 of 144 (permalink) Old 01-09-2017, 04:15 PM
Crowned Member
 
MineAreWorkingline's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 3,858
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jax08 View Post
I don't think Nurse Bishop has ever claimed to have a working line? I think it was just assumed from his posts about Schutzhund titles. I could be wrong because I don't keep track of old posts. But show lines have Schutzhund titles too.
Nurse Bishop has stated they own a European working line.

Since this is the Brag section :)

He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors. - Thomas Jefferson

Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts. - Daniel Patrick Moynihan
MineAreWorkingline is offline  
post #47 of 144 (permalink) Old 01-09-2017, 04:31 PM
Crowned Member
 
Jax08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NNE PA
Posts: 27,420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nurse Bishop View Post
" Don't see how one could go from a "GSD" to a "Pug" however???"

I did not say go from GSD to Pug. I meant that if PeoPle don't want to commit to training a Real Dog and they want a Pet maybe they should not get a working breed.

By the way, my GSD sPilled a glass of water in my keyboard and now I have to coPy and Paste the letter P.
GSD's are wayyyy easier than pugs! lol




Jax08 is offline  
post #48 of 144 (permalink) Old 01-09-2017, 04:35 PM
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Lyons NY
Posts: 1,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nurse Bishop View Post
The effort--That seems like it would depend on what the handler wanted to train. Basic obedience, sit stay, down? My ten month old knows and is proofed in twenty six commands so far. Training is given while hiking, riding horses, in the farm yard among milling animals and chickens, going into town to a dog park to generalize commands under heavy distraction - by the way only when there are no dogs in one side. All this takes time and energy but what a joy it is. I have never had a dog this intelligent.
Training is fun for some people. But to say an hour of training a day is required isnt necessarily true. And you can put a number on it, but an obedient inteligent dog is just that. Not a dog that knows 26 commands. Some people say commands are trained tricks.
MineAreWorkingline likes this.
cloudpump is online now  
post #49 of 144 (permalink) Old 01-09-2017, 05:09 PM
Knighted Member
 
LuvShepherds's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 2,974
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudpump View Post
Training is fun for some people. But to say an hour of training a day is required isnt necessarily true. And you can put a number on it, but an obedient inteligent dog is just that. Not a dog that knows 26 commands. Some people say commands are trained tricks.
I am working on using fewer commands. The fewer the better. Why confuse the dog if I can get what I want with a limited number? I think we confuse quantity with better trained. That is just not true.

My trainer who is the best one I have ever worked with, said twenty minutes a day is enough. Our vet said dogs learn better with a day or two between sessions. It becomes ingrained when they aren't doing the same thing every day.
MineAreWorkingline likes this.
LuvShepherds is offline  
post #50 of 144 (permalink) Old 01-09-2017, 05:23 PM
Moderator
 
car2ner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,697
My boy-dog has IPO 2 and 3s on the males in his line. The females at least IPO 1 (i suspect they started breeding after they got the 1) His dad only got the BH since he was in Germany and oversized. He got sold to an American, our breeder, because he had such a great temperament.

So how smart is my dog? Well, he was smart enough to be a handful as a pup. He is smart enough to get along well with the house rules. I did Dognition with him and I found out that when presented with a choice of something on the left or something on the right, nearly always he will chose the one on the left, regardless of other variables. So what did that show me about his intelligence. Maybe he isn't concerned with getting a treat, if he goes follows his formula it always works out.
He also plays tricks on my husband. It's funny.

here is a part of the playing around we did today.

do I get stories like this from my friends with WL? sure do!

about.me/car2ner
Patton CGC BH
Chief one and a half years old

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
car2ner is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the German Shepherd Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome