Which is the best GSD Line for Dog Intelligence? - Page 2 - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #11 of 144 (permalink) Old 01-08-2017, 03:20 PM Thread Starter
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Are you adamant about a GSD? It might be in your best interest to go back to the drawing board and REALLY assess what you want. Also, what do you define as "too much"? At your request I can help you find your breed via PM, should that be a GSD or otherwise.

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I want to stay with a GSD, probably will end up with a pet type. I love the look of the Kraftwerk Dogs in Washington but they cost way too much. So far I have not seen better looking dogs.
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post #12 of 144 (permalink) Old 01-08-2017, 04:20 PM
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Rin Tin Tin represented the intelligence of the breed but at the end of the day his lines are irrelevant - he was an actor. Just as acting in war movies wouldn't make any one of us fit to be a soilder.

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post #13 of 144 (permalink) Old 01-08-2017, 04:42 PM
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Rin Tin Tin represented the intelligence of the breed but at the end of the day his lines are irrelevant - he was an actor. Just as acting in war movies wouldn't make any one of us fit to be a soilder.
if you actually look at the history of Rin Tin Tin, he had a very expressive face as well as good trick training. That was part of his success. One of his offspring, Son of Rin Tin Tin, also did well with the tricks and skills for the movie set but his face was less expressive. I guess he was lacking in charm? Or the movie audience wanted more than just a good looking smart dog.

Also there are different kinds of smarts. There are those dogs who are smart enough to try things on their own and get into all kinds of trouble. There are those dogs who are smart enough to wait for their people to get them what they want and not go through the trouble themselves. Which dog would you call smarter?

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post #14 of 144 (permalink) Old 01-08-2017, 04:47 PM Thread Starter
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Rin Tin Tin represented the intelligence of the breed but at the end of the day his lines are irrelevant - he was an actor. Just as acting in war movies wouldn't make any one of us fit to be a soilder.
I agree that Rin Tin Tin was just an actor. I meant he represented the intelligence of the breed only.
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post #15 of 144 (permalink) Old 01-08-2017, 04:50 PM
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I guess I would say in a wishful thinking I would love a dog with supreme intelligence, beautiful looks, with no hip problems, and with sound character, not nervous, good drive but not a drive that seems crazy or annoying, or too much..
You can certainly find that dream dog.

I think there are many, many of us here on the forum that have the dog you described, and from different lines. My dog Carly is one. Everyone that knows her jokingly calls her the perfect dog. Scary smart, beautiful (retired show dog), OFA Good hips, great with children, appropriately aloof with strangers, major ball drive, food drive, and a williness to do anything that I ask her. She is a joy. She is ASL. I know you can find that perfect dog in all the lines, you just have to do your research, and take your time.

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post #16 of 144 (permalink) Old 01-08-2017, 04:52 PM Thread Starter
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if you actually look at the history of Rin Tin Tin, he had a very expressive face as well as good trick training. That was part of his success. One of his offspring, Son of Rin Tin Tin, also did well with the tricks and skills for the movie set but his face was less expressive. I guess he was lacking in charm? Or the movie audience wanted more than just a good looking smart dog.

Also there are different kinds of smarts. There are those dogs who are smart enough to try things on their own and get into all kinds of trouble. There are those dogs who are smart enough to wait for their people to get them what they want and not go through the trouble themselves. Which dog would you call smarter?
I agree with different kinds of smart for different things. I have noticed in my full bred GSD vs mixed GSD. They are both very smart but at different things.
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post #17 of 144 (permalink) Old 01-08-2017, 05:00 PM Thread Starter
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You can certainly find that dream dog.

I think there are many, many of us here on the forum that have the dog you described, and from different lines. My dog Carly is one. Everyone that knows her jokingly calls her the perfect dog. Scary smart, beautiful (retired show dog), OFA Good hips, great with children, appropriately aloof with strangers, major ball drive, food drive, and a williness to do anything that I ask her. She is a joy. She is ASL. I know you can find that perfect dog in all the lines, you just have to do your research, and take your time.
Great to hear this. What breeder is she from? There was a breeder in my town who was combining "the best of all breeds" in her dogs, american, german, and czech. She had been doing this for close to 30 years with great success, she just retired though and has no dogs left to sell. Heres a pic of one of her dogs.
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post #18 of 144 (permalink) Old 01-08-2017, 05:08 PM
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@[MENTION][MENTION];[/MENTION][/MENTION]

So what I've learned so far is; working lines = difficult dog to train, strong willed type. It sounds like It takes a calm collected trainer to train WL's.
Is there working line dogs that can be easy going, calm, not hard headed in training, yet turn the switch on when needed?
This would not be an accurate statement.

Yes, there are working line dogs that are easy to train with an on / off switch.

A calm, collected trainer will do best when training any dog, not just WL dogs.

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post #19 of 144 (permalink) Old 01-08-2017, 05:08 PM
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@[MENTION][MENTION];[/MENTION][/MENTION]

So what I've learned so far is; working lines = difficult dog to train, strong willed type. It sounds like It takes a calm collected trainer to train WL's.
Is there working line dogs that can be easy going, calm, not hard headed in training, yet turn the switch on when needed?
Your generalization about WLs could not be further from reality. WLs are selectively bred for high trainability. What sense would it make to breed working dogs that are hard to train?

That's not to say all WLs are created equal. Different bloodlines produce dogs with varying talents and skills. Even within a single litter, not every pup will show the same drives, hardness and biddability.

*Hardness* is a badly misunderstood term. It does not mean hard headed. It means resilient. It's a highly desirable trait in the GSD.

All of that said, WLs are not for everyone. A dog with high drive and energy needs outlets. It's kinder to place that dog in a working home. Good breeders understand the need to produce strong working dogs who have *off switches*, i.e. They can settle nicely in the house. I've got a 9 wk old Czech WL pup who is already showing the ability to chill.

You may end up happier with a WG show line dog. They have drive as well, but it's easier to find a pup with more moderate drives among the showlines. Many of these dogs have some minor flaw like a missing tooth that renders them ineligible for a top show rating. They represent an opportunity to buy a beautiful well bred dog, as they will be sold as pets.

Scour the boards for more info. If you are interested in a WL dog, get out to an IPO or SDA or other dog sport club and observe.
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post #20 of 144 (permalink) Old 01-08-2017, 05:12 PM Thread Starter
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Your generalization about WLs could not be further from reality. WLs are selectively bred for high trainability. What sense would it make to breed working dogs that are hard to train?

That's not to say all WLs are created equal. Different bloodlines produce dogs with varying talents and skills. Even within a single litter, not every pup will show the same drives, hardness and biddability.

*Hardness* is a badly misunderstood term. It does not mean hard headed. It means resilient. It's a highly desirable trait in the GSD.

All of that said, WLs are not for everyone. A dog with high drive and energy needs outlets. It's kinder to place that dog in a working home. Good breeders understand the need to produce strong working dogs who have *off switches*, i.e. They can settle nicely in the house. I've got a 9 wk old Czech WL pup who is already showing the ability to chill.

You may end up happier with a WG show line dog. They have drive as well, but it's easier to find a pup with more moderate drives among the showlines. Many of these dogs have some minor flaw like a missing tooth that renders them ineligible for a top show rating. They represent an opportunity to buy a beautiful well bred dog, as they will be sold as pets.

Scour the boards for more info. If you are interested in a WL dog, get out to an IPO or SDA or other dog sport club and observe.
I agree with you, I was just posting what I'd learned so far based on the answers received here. Everyone has had a slightly different opinion.
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