Well, here we go.... - Page 3 - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #21 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-10-2017, 05:42 PM
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I think he's beautiful !
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post #22 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-15-2017, 04:03 PM Thread Starter
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Playing sit on the dog right now. I am challenging him as Milo is laying in here. Also this room is home to two conures and a fish tank. But worked ok in here a couple days ago. Thought I was overweight but clearly the leash is slipping a bit under my butt. Handy to have a room full of distractions right at home. Hopefully this helps in the future regarding his relationship to the birds too. As he has lost his fear of the barn cats, he is displaying the normal tendency to give chase. Cats that hold their ground still scare him mind you.

So updates...
"Aggression" is clearly fear based. I have no way of knowing if it has been sort of trained into him or if it is hundred per cent genetic. Due to a few hints from the former owner I am inclined to believe it was largely trained into him. In the end, Owner 1 was clearly afraid of him. This he eventually told me. So I am following suggestions for a fearful dog...we shall see.I have not seen any reactions that really worry me yet. Barking forward motion followed by backing up. "I want to see you but I am scared of you"

He is still grounded. But I have an idea for his first outing. We have a banquet hall that was flooded last week. It has been largely stripped as it undergoes repairs. So, there is a work crew there and my husband and I will wait until my son (pup loves him) is there as well. So the first outing with me will be to a large indoor area that contains both strangers and people he knows. I am counting on fear barking with some lunging towards backing behaviors with the stranger if I get to close. So I will avoid this and just approach my family members. . Think this might too much?

He is now walking the back property on a drag line. His official recall sucks somewhat, but he exhibits all the natural tendencies to stay close. He is rewarded verbally every time he shoulder checks or returns to me to check in I generally do not call him when he is dragging as I could be helpless to enforce it if he decides he is too busy.. I suspect the most important thing to improving this pup's outlook on the world is improving his confidence and I think this kind of walking goes a long way towards that? Milo really does not want to bother with him. He is to busy working on getting me to toss his stick. I wish he would play with the pup but right now this is better then the alternative. Milo has extremely high prey drive and I inadvertently channeled that into fetch games when he was young, which in his mind are meant to be non-stop. The few times the pup got to close to the dropped stick Milo gave a little growl. I told Milo to knock it off but did not interfere otherwise and it never escalated. The pup respected the warning. If Milo has his stick in his mouth the pup does not bother him at all.

The pup is doing really well on his sit command. Impressive. He is even utilizing it on his own in an attempt to get what he wants. He is doing really well on his lay command too. He needs my hand directing the action but eventually I know he will down just on command. He is even doing doggy push ups! Other then that he is working on "watch". Saw it on the forum and decided it could be a very handy command for all sorts of reasons with a fearful pup. He caught on to it really fast so now working on holding it longer. He is easier to crate now but I am also decreasing his time spent in it as much as possible. And of course I am utilizing treats for his crated time. None of this training this very formal in nature, it is play based. It is why I could never use a clicker as it requires structured training and I just play a lot.

The nipping which seemed to be largely out of control is tons, tons better. I now wonder if it was a natural puppy thing which had escalated as a nervous energy outlet. Sometimes I think when people attempt to correct behavior I think they might be spiraling downwards instead, increasing said behavior instead. Like negative feedback with the opposite, undesired effect. Confused, scared puppy results?

Anyhow, well past the 1/2 hour down now, so I shall post some pics from today's walk and end this
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post #23 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-15-2017, 04:16 PM
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Very handsome, I like the pale sables.
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post #24 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-15-2017, 06:39 PM
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Typically a "Drag leash is for use indoors and kinda short?? If your using a "Drag leash" out doors?? It should be 15 feet or so and it's best "not" to actually let the dog drag it! They can get a lot of speed up fast wit the longer leash and if that leash gets caught on something ... that's not good!

I can almost guarantee you that if you are using a 6 foot drag leash outdoors ... if that dogs decides to move fast ... you won't be able to stop him! Having a dog always on leash outside ... is a "PIA" but if it's a dog you just ?? You have no choice!

I've always trained "Stay and Down" first before letting my dogs off leash. Boxer thing "recall" takes to much "processing" ... the dog "thinks" ... I must first stop doing whatever it is I'm doing ... turn around ... and come back??

Stay worked much better,it will slow them down and "Down!" Keeps them where they are! You drill,drill Stay and Down, Down and Stay and then the dog has "nothing to think about. It's more like "oh ... I know that one!" And "boom" they "Stop!"

Fear or Aggression ... the "pro's" will tell you (I know becasue one told me. ) That JQP cannot really "distinguish" between the two??? OK then fine ... I'm not a "Pro" so I choose the term "unpredictable??" As I have no idea what "this dog" my best course of action is "to keep people out of his face!" Ie "Who Pets ..." but if you look close ,,, you will see that "Who Pets ..." is pretty much the same thing as the "Five things to do with a fearful dog article!
" I don't know that the "banquet" thinkgwould be that great an idea ... right now???

I have always followed the "Leerburg Protocol" "Who Pets my Puppy or Dog" except with my Boxer and Band Dawg the answer was always "to my pet" please do! Worked out fine."

But when I got my first OS WL GSD ... I got pretty clear indications early on that saying "yes" ... might not work out so well?? So I decided that well ... you know .. .what if I say "NO??" Long story short ... worked out fine and when I happened to get the opportunity to work with an "acknowledged true fear of people Boxer ... I did the exact same thing!

That was working so well in fact, that with him I had abandoned the step in front of my dog approach! The dog was actually between me and people .. (I did not do that with my GSD) I would stop at about 5 feet away from people and "Rocky was behind me but this dog was good at that distance only with the person to his outside and nme beside him. And I'd answer questions about him and we would move on ... no problems.

If the story ended there I would have said "this dog does not have people issues and ... I'd have been wrong! As it happened ... as we returned to camp, yet another person stopped us and asked about this "Boxer??" We are of course 5 feet away ... as I contemplate an answer but ... the woman steps forward ... she closed my five foot gap?? The instant she did ... the dog stepped back and presses hard into my leg??? I look down and he looked up at me and his eyes were big as saucers!!

That was it "Fear of People" confirmed! My hand went out and I said "NO!" Fear of people we are in "training" And we were out of there! I did "Sit on the Dog" with him back and camp and to amazement this dog that I had seen the following week and he just looked beat down ... although he could not move beyond the 6 feet leash ... he appeared just as happy and goofy as all the other Boxers?? And to my astonishment when I went back I had expected to be working with him again ... but he was gone as he had been adopted.?

The "banquet" think ... I don't know just yet?? Someone mentioned the "term" flooding the dog, as I understand put so much pressure on the dog ... that he has no choice but to give in?? In "extreme" circumstances sometimes yes that is "necessary!" But here don't know ...it may work out fine?? But I'd ask ...what's the hurry???

The way dogs get over this crap is by them having faith in you! "Mommy's"s got my back as it were! But if you push to hard to soon you can break that trust??? If you want to try what your suggesting the "Banquet" thing "now??" Simply do more of what your are already doing now! More "Place Training" and more "Sit on the dog" out and about not "just" in the home?? And more walking and finding people to ignore!

You seem to have this handled ... just don't expect ... to much ... to soon and the dog will be fine your building a "Bond of Trust" here and that takes time.
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post #25 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-17-2017, 01:20 PM Thread Starter
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I am not using a leash. Well a leash attached to a 50ft water ski rope. I get what you are saying regarding a new dog but I have been watching his behavior and am convinced he is not leaving me. But you are right, there is always a risk involved especially when I get lost in thought...and while his official recall (come) is not 100% his "come on bonehead we gotta go" is really good when I keep moving. Yesterday for the first time we got into a place (cedar grove) where I lost sight of him. I ducked down and waited. Sure enough, he came looking as I was sure he would.

In regards to him running and getting caught. In fact the opposite is true. There is more risk of that when I hold the end and it gets caught on something. The ski rope slips really easily through/by stuff.

Chip, I decided you were right. What is the hurry? I think I was thinking that if he is indeed working on being fear aggressive I should not let him exist too long in this bubble. I am on a 100 acre farm and strange people and dogs are tough to come by . The only way for me to work on that is to load him into the truck and head into town. I thought the business was a good place to start as the area is large and it would contain both familiar and strange people but not an over whelming number. Milo and I went yesterday and there were 5 guys there working on repairs. So that is a good amount to start with.

I don't know about you but I find it really hard in public situations to keep people away from the dog if he is not acting aggressive. Course you don't want them near enough that they trigger it. Nice to be able to control it better with a work crew. So maybe next week....

I have not started training "place". I have tried to stick to easy, fun (or do nothing) training thus far. I don't of course know for sure what was going on in his first home and I realize living in town introduces a lot of issues I don't face day by day, but I swear I see this pup relaxing a lot.

Cannot believe he has already been here 2 wks tomorrow.
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