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Advice needed: Sibling play-dates for two traumatized dogs?

3K views 18 replies 9 participants last post by  San 
#1 · (Edited)
Hey there,

Another buyer from that breeder of my pup contacted me today and he was thinking of arranging a play-date for our pups. Here is the story... He and I are both Chinese, and because his English was not good at all, I became his interpreter with the breeder when we coincidentally met at the breeder's place during pick up. Both of us stayed at the breeder's place for an hour to watch the pups play, my pup and his (the second boy born in the litter of 8 or 9) got along really well. That man and I got along pretty well as well so we exchanged contact information, thinking we can have mini family reunion in the future. He lives in suburbs and I live in downtown, so we are not really close but not too bad. And we regularly chat and exchange pics of our dogs with each other, always thinking of letting them play again some day.

However he told me his pup was attacked by a neighbour's off-leash pit bull mix (he confirms it has a typical pit bull look, so I am gonna trust him despite pit bulls are banned in ontario) during their walk 3 weeks ago (he told me he carried his dog away immediately after) and since then his boy got aggressive with dogs. He told me his pup would lunge and bark really loud non-stop at dogs he met, though he told me his pup did not snarl his teeth and he restrained his pup when meeting other dogs so his dog has not had any close contact with another dog since that incident and we don't know how he will react if he gets close enough.

Some background about my pup: She is fearful-submissive/hyper-excited with dogs depending on the situation and the dog she meets. She was only hyper-excited before she got attacked by several dogs including being chased and bitten by a yorkie in dog park. Full details can be found here: http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...overly-submissive-dog-attracting-bullies.html

So now he is thinking of arranging a play-date between his pup and my pup as they got along so well, but I am a bit worried about my pup's reaction to this. They got along really well at 8 weeks and they are siblings but I am not sure if they will get along again now at 4 months especailly since my pup gets a bit fearful of dogs and her brother gets dog-aggressive.

So help and advice? I don't think that man can benefit from normal training classes and private trainer as his family except his very young daughter (8 years old or something) can not understand english...and Chinese people directly coming from mainland generally don't work dog training jobs and I find none when searching online.

So advice needed!!! Thanks,
J
 

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#2 ·
I would recommend that each of you go to a training class and get some obedience -- and make the dogs comfortable and under control in the PRESENCE of other dogs in a controlled situation FIRST

dog parks? when will people learn .

recommending Chris at Gemini k9 http://www.geminik9.com/

there are a few Chinese speaking sport people --- I will see if I can get names for you.

Dogs can be trained and language could be 100% made up -- if dogs can be trained so can your friend . Watch and follow .
 
#4 · (Edited)
Hey thanks! The problem is not the language used to train dog, it is the language between trainer and owner. He can not understand a english speaking trainer as he can not comprehend what the trainer is trying to say to him...a chinese-speaking one would be helpful! (Needs to be mandarin, both of us don't speak cantonese)

And I have looked into the trainer you recommended during my search, unfortunately they are too far from me and I don't have a driver's licence so I won't go that far and they don't serve my area for private consultations.

Both dogs need work. Are either in any kind of training classes? My golden was viciously attacked by a Rott when he was 3-4 months old. He was already in classes at the time and I moved forward with the classes, which helped tremendously. That attack never made a difference to him. He is now almost 7 years old and is a well mannered, good tempered dog.

Of course it depends on the dog, but as the owners of these dogs, you must keep them safe and they need to know that. They should not be allowed to bark or growl at other dogs. Do either of you have a stable good tempered dog that can help with training?
Hey thanks. My dog is in group class and I am consulting with private trainers, but he can not understand a english speaking trainer. And no, both of our dogs are single dogs in the home. And thanks for the comfort, I hope my dog turns out ok as well.
 
#3 ·
Both dogs need work. Are either in any kind of training classes? My golden was viciously attacked by a Rott when he was 3-4 months old. He was already in classes at the time and I moved forward with the classes, which helped tremendously. That attack never made a difference to him. He is now almost 7 years old and is a well mannered, good tempered dog.

Of course it depends on the dog, but as the owners of these dogs, you must keep them safe and they need to know that. They should not be allowed to bark or growl at other dogs. Do either of you have a stable good tempered dog that can help with training in a controlled setting?
 
#6 ·
The problem is not the language used to train dog, it is the language between trainer and owner. He can not understand a english speaking trainer as he can not comprehend what the trainer is trying to say to him...

That is why I said he needs to watch the demo and follow .
He can learn and expand English - consider this a form of immersion.

Watch out for rip-off "private trainers" . I have run across a few that do not have a clue , except how to charge .

If you want something badly enough you will find a way to do it.

I lived in the heart of downtown Toronto, no drivers license - car ownership a nuisance -- used public transit to get to dog shows , with my dog , to compete in trials .

Ask Chris who he would recommend .
 
#7 ·
That is why I said he needs to watch the demo and follow .
He can learn and expand English - consider this a form of immersion.
Hey thanks, I will let him know, but it is up to him to decide. Regarding learning English...it is really hard for Chinese adults (+25) without a proper English education back home. Those Chinese who immigrated as older adults but spoke english fine most likely had good english education back in China.
Both of us are not interested in dog sports and show though, but I will sure pass along the recommendations to him.

Anyway, should I refuse his offer to meet?
 
#12 ·
Based on websites, I'd go with the trainer San linked over any of the other 3. I wouldn't go to the other 3 period, but Kevin Wu looks to me like where you'd get more of the actual training help I think you need. As far as the dogs playing, 4mos is right about the time the rough housing can become serious. I see most of my dogs siblings at training and that was right about the time we quit letting them play together.

One thing you could do is have your friend observe while you train with your pup. He can see what you're working on and how, then ask you questions. That could give him a general idea so that even if there's language difference he's seen what's being done.
 
#13 ·
I will tag on to Steve's post that you could use it as a training opportunity. Have the dogs at a distance on leash and work on focus commands, and other simple stuff while another dog is close but not too close. If they can tolerate it, you can start walking in parallel and get closer. I would think a good goal is to have them both on lead going for a walk in close proximity. They don't have to have a rumble. Go on a nice long walk.
 
#14 ·
I wouldn't meet him. If it goes wrong you'll only make it worse. Does this guy have a car? Possibly you can crate both dogs and put something between them so they can smell each other but not see each other. When I first moved to Germany I didn't speak German, but I immediately began taking riding lessons (horseback). My instructor didn't speak a word of English. We made it work. You can translate for your friend in class as well. I'd get in touch with the person San gave you.
 
#15 ·
Thanks for the advice.

Though I can not go to the trainer San recommends, as he is way too far from me. I will see how things go with the trainers I have hired (they are pretty much all the ones I can find who serve my area) and go from there. Me being in the same class as my friend is also unlikely, he lives pretty far away from me as well and even though he has a car, I doubt he would like to go downtown all the time to my class as dt traffic is very BAD.

Using their meeting as a training activity where dogs carefully approach each other sounds like a good idea, though I will make sure meet after his dog learns some basic obedience first.
 
#16 ·
OP, there are Chinese resources online as well. He can check out the "overseas forum" in goumin.com. Most of the members are Chinese pet owners living overseas. There are threads on training, vaccination, and other dog-related stuff.
bbs.goumin.com/forum-86-1.html

If he wants to learn more about fear periods. Here is ”The Dark Side of Socialization: Fear Periods and Single Event Learning," originally from Dr. Jen's Dog Blog, in Chinese.
blog.xuite.net/wch4422/VickCT/455911914-社會化的黑暗面:恐懼期及單一事件學習
 
#18 ·
lol I did not know there is one. Thanks though, I will pass along the knowledge to my friend. Though from reading that forum, I feel it is not as training-intensive as this. It seems to be posts of owners' daily life with their pets who are generally smaller breeds. But still, very helpful to know, thanks a lot.

you have to choose based on the quality and experience of the trainer.

Totally agree "When I first moved to Germany I didn't speak German, but I immediately began taking riding lessons (horseback). My instructor didn't speak a word of English. We made it work. You can translate for your friend in class as well."

Your english is very good -- take your friend along .

Is he in the Markham / Pacific Mall area ? Then he is close to Chris Rollox of Gemini .
Chris would know the trainers / decoys of IPO I mentioned that have an Asian background as
they are members of clubs in this area.

out of curiosity who did you choose as private trainers .
You can PM me .
There are some characters out there offering training that should never have a leash in their hands. Real scamsters.
He is in Brampton so pretty far, but he has a car and can drive so it is up to him. He seems to be very interested in Kevin Wu who teaches in Chinese, so hopefully Kevin can help him. Honestly I don't blame him if he does not want to train with English speaking people though, I remember myself being really freaked out when entering an English speaking school with people who have blue(!!!) eyes lol.

The trainers I have chosen:...

Dog Training Services Whitchurch-Stouffville - K9 Montessori is recommended by Synergy Working Dog Club near Toronto and they replied me today saying they can help me, so I am definitely trying them out. I have had one and half hour session with Best Dog Trainers Toronto :: Toronto Dog Trainers today, it was good but not very practical so I want to try around. I have also booked an consultation with Andrew from Dog Training Toronto - When Hounds Fly Dog Training where I am currently taking group classes. Andrew seems pretty popular on papers and news and reviews. Lastly, the president at Capital City Schutzhund Club | Member of the WUSV and GSSCC in the ontario Region is VERY kind and ask me to call him tmr to discuss my dog's training issues as he is very passionate about GSDs, so I will have a talk with him and see if he has anyone near me to recommend as well!
 
#17 ·
you have to choose based on the quality and experience of the trainer.

Totally agree "When I first moved to Germany I didn't speak German, but I immediately began taking riding lessons (horseback). My instructor didn't speak a word of English. We made it work. You can translate for your friend in class as well."

Your english is very good -- take your friend along .

Is he in the Markham / Pacific Mall area ? Then he is close to Chris Rollox of Gemini .
Chris would know the trainers / decoys of IPO I mentioned that have an Asian background as
they are members of clubs in this area.

out of curiosity who did you choose as private trainers .
You can PM me .
There are some characters out there offering training that should never have a leash in their hands. Real scamsters.
 
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