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Overly submissive dog attracting bullies?

16K views 92 replies 21 participants last post by  JunYue97 
#1 ·
Hello world,

My dog has been attacked THREE times now during the 2 months that i have had her..........

So this thread might be where things started...:http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/puppy-behavior/666458-ptsd-aggressive-dog-puppy.html and it is the first time.

The second time was in a puppy class. In the puppy socialization classes, there are generally a play time where puppies play with each other after training. My pup usually plays the role of being chased in the dog chase game despite her being one of the biggest dogs in her puppy class. However, roughly 1.5 weeks ago, a smaller puppy decides to bite her muzzle while she is being chased, my pup whined and ran towards me but she did not dare to look back nor bite back. That puppy was much smaller than my puppy, and he did not have any problems with any other puppy. The instructor quickly intervened, and my pup continued to whine and cuddle with me for 1 min and then return to play, while the other pup got taken out. After that incident, she sometimes whine while being chased, but nothing alarming so I did not pay attention.

Third time is the worst yestarday...My pup is 4months old now, and yesterday was the first time that I took her to our local dog park's big playground area where there are ~20 dogs. It was because she was sick before yesterday and had to be stuck at home, eating sensitive stomach meals, so I kinda tried to celebrate her recovery by taking her there.

It was terrible. Right after we entered the playground from the off-leash trails, my pup happily walked up to the group of dogs who were playing, but then a yorkshire terrier ran out from the group and bit my dog's furs near her stomach (I am convinced she was aiming for throat but my dog was too high for her), that dog won't let go and my dog frantically ran and shaked and howled. That dog got shaken off by my dog's movement but they were surrounded by a group of dogs who gathered around so my dog could not escape, and that yorkshire terrier bit my dog's leg's furs again and of course he refused to let go despite his owner screaming at him!!! My dog was whining and trying to get towards me through the dogs like crazy, luckily those owners called away their dogs who were surrounding the scene and I got to my dog while the other owner got to her dog, and she successfully called her yorkshire terrier away as she got close enough. There was only a little blood thanks to GSDs' tough double coat, and needless to say I immediately took her home after she stopped whining. However, as I walked away from the playground area, I noticed that dog who attacked mine play with all other dogs again without any problems.

On the way out of the dog park, my dog would excitedly ran towards a dog when she saw it, but immediately changed her direction back to me after like 3 seconds (and she would try to sit on my foot), and if the other dog chased her thinking she initiated play, she would gave out this big scream and lay on the ground, tails ducked and exposing her belly despite the other dog only meant to play and she was the one who started it.

I only posted this now because I sprayed my ankle when my dog suddenly changed direction, bumped into me, and sat on my foot, I ended up tripping over my dog and had to go to a doctor at 6pm. So i am the one who end up getting physically hurt the most in this incident...lol

Anyway any ideas how to deal with this situation? I suspect my dog gave out a submissive aura or something and all other dogs sensed it, I mean a 10 pounds dog can feel safe bullying her, she must rank really low in the dog's world. I don't plan on making her a protection dog so that is not a problem, but I would want her to interact peacefully with other dogs off-leash as there are huge off-leash areas near my home and my dog and I really enjoy our time there. So how not to make her a target to other dogs? And how to make her stop running to strange dogs but then immediately running back, scaring the heck out of herself?

Thanks,
J
 
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#2 ·
You will find a tonne of people here who are against dog parks, which I am now partially included in, so be prepared for the "NO DOG PARKS" comments. Perhaps the most beneficial thing we did for Rollo after he was attacked at a dog park, was visiting our local oval where a group of 7-8 dogs are taken in the morning and afternoon. Every dog is sociable, with a healthy mixture of energetic/chill pups, so it has been fantastic for us and Rollo's perception of other dogs. Would there be a group like this you could join?

Enrol you puppy into obedience classes, where you'll be by your dog the entire time so she feels safe, but also understanding that dogs will not always run at her and become a threat - ours has supervised 'free for all' after class. The best way to avoid her from running up to dogs/running back is essentially teaching her not to run up to strange dogs full stop. You never know how another dog will react to her running up, and as she grows you'll notice owners also don't appreciate a large dog like a GSD sprinting towards their doggie, so now is a good time to teach it. Her behaviour is still 'puppified', so don't stress too much about her running back to you for protection, she's a baby and is unsure how to speak complete doggie, so she looks for you for guidance.

Also be wary of too much off-leash play: we used to take Rollo to the dog park ALL the time, and basically over-socialised him in an off-lead setting, so now he acts like a bit of a spazz when he is on leash... He get's way too excited when he spots another dog because that means PLAY!

Hope this helps a tiny bit? I feel like I rambled a bit :p
 
#9 · (Edited)
Hey thanks for the replies,

Today is not too good, I can not walk my dog due to my sprayed ankle, and I sat in front of our building outside on the grass with my dog for 10min during our regular walk time. My dog did not greet other dogs who passed by well, she initially wagged her tails wanting to approach those dogs, but as soon as the other dog noticed her enthusiasm and pulled to get to her, she got terrified and tried to squeeze herself onto my lap. Her bleeding stopped and blood clot formed properly without signs of infection though.

I agree with all of you that she should avoid group off-leash play with dogs for now. But I really hope she can build up her confidence and interact with strange dogs fine off-leash in the future because there is a huge park near my place where there is a many kilometers of off-leash trails (in fact, most trails in that park are off-leash). Running with my dog off-leash in that park daily has always been my dream, and I can tell my dog enjoys running off-leash as well.

And another question btw, do you guys think I should encourage my dogs to bite back her bullies? Or at least snarl at them? I really feel my dog needs to learn some self-defense. I am sure if she growled at the yorkshire terrier instead of whining, that dog would give up way before his owner got to her. Her reactions of only whining, crying and running to me are not exactly going to help her if she ever gets attacked by a larger dog in the future. I plan on taking her to hikes and travels and parks, and it is not worth giving up all the fun we could have there just because of fearing her getting attacked. I mean, when I bought my dog, I did not plan on only taking her to leashed walks and watching tv with her, I was looking forward to take her into the wilderness. Should I train her on some fighting skills? Is it possible to train a dog to fight back when attacked but do not attack when the other dog is friendly?



Thanks for the advice. No there are no such dog clubs near me unfortunately, and yeah she is currently in an obedience class where every dog is on leash and there are only 4 dogs in one class. I don't know how to train her to not run to dogs though, she gets very excited when she first sees them and my commands don't work.

If your puppy is being attacked in puppy classes, you may want to rethink taking your puppy there.
Yeah, she finished her puppy program and is now in obedience classes where every dog is on leash and there are only 4 dogs in total. What bothers me is that every other dog in puppy class seems to do fine, and my dog's incident is the only one I have witnessed during all my time at the training school.

Welcome to raising a puppy in a high density city with a bunch of ignorant dog owners! Isn't it fun?

I raised my GSD mix in Toronto (we moved when she was just over a year old). I ended up avoiding all of the fenced in dog parks - generally the people who go to those parks use them because their dogs have poor recall, not the kind of dogs you want to expose your puppy to, and not the kind of owners you can count on to prevent things from happening (there are exceptions but in my experience, it wasn't worth it). There are plenty of off-leash areas that are larger and have lower dog density. We spent most of our time in ravines, on trails, on the beach, and found a couple spots where bylaw wouldn't enforce leash rules; most of our dog interactions were of the "sniff and move on" variety or involved walking and exploring together. We'd do supervised play with dogs that we knew (met them on walks and the dogs got along well) but usually one-on-one or small groups. I find that a lot of problems in dog parks are because the owners stand around expecting the dogs to entertain each other and because there's a lot of dogs confined in a small space.

It doesn't sound like your dog is provoking these attacks, just that she's a puppy and she's a new dog. She might be a little sensitive and/or fearful now due to how many times she's been attacked but if a dog is attacking her because of that, that's the other dog's owner failing, not you. You cannot make a dog impervious to attack. Your best bet is to avoid situations where she might be attacked, build her confidence around other dogs in a controlled setting (obedience classes are better than puppy play time classes), and find other ways to enjoy your dog. There are plenty of other things you can do, especially since you can take dogs on the TTC at non-peak hours so you can travel fairly easily with them.
Hey there, do you mind sharing the quieter off-leash areas that you took your dogs to in Toronto? All the ones I know of are very crowded and my dog gets overly excited. I am not sure how to build up her confidence around dogs though, should I try to make her more dominant by letting her eat first etc so that other dogs would not dare to bother her again?

Fearful dogs and pups tend to trigger prey drive in dogs and the worst place for that is a dog park. Your pup has a good chance of becoming dog reactive/aggressive as she gets older due to these encounters. As others have said, you have to immediately stop these risks and take her to a sensible trainer where they don't let puppies run loose. She needs lots of exposure (without interaction) with other dogs while associating them with the good stuff, like treats, play, toys and praise while you continue breathing and remaining relaxed (do not tighten the leash)
Yeah now you mentioned it, I remember the owner of that yorkshire terrier saying to me "he does not like puppies". She now does two things when seeing another dog, she pulls to get to them but immediately runs back to me looking scared and sometimes whining when the other dog actually approaches her. I suspect petting her after that only encourages her to run away and come to me during a dog-dog encounter, so I don't think I should reward that?
 
#3 ·
Stay out of dog parks!!!! Not only does it recreate the possibility of what happened in puppy class if you let your dog run.....but more important you CANT control the actions of the other dogs and most people in dog parks can't control the actions of their dogs when off leash.
 
#4 ·
If it were me I would stop all contact with other dogs immediately, maybe join a well run class so your pup can become accustomed to being near other dogs that are on leash and under control. Try reintroducing to known reliable older, calm, dogs down the road when your pup has had a chance to calm down a little from this.

I have seen these attacks occur in clusters, it happened that way to my female gsd....made the mistake of walking her at a communal trail walking place when she was young. After the first the nasty dogs do seem to sense the fear and target that same dog over and over.

My pup has never been loose in an offleash dog area except once or twice when it was empty and I went in to throw is ball and then got out before anyone else showed up.

He has been slightly ambushed once or twice by leashed or unleashed dogs and there has been a growl or two....those situations were relatively easy to shut down because it wasn't an offleash free for all but when wires get crossed in a big playgroup it can go south in a hurry. He has met on leash and played offleash with a very carefully selected few dogs besides my own other dogs...
 
#5 ·
I don't plan on making her a protection dog so that is not a problem, but I would want her to interact peacefully with other dogs off-leash as there are huge off-leash areas near my home and my dog and I really enjoy our time there. So how not to make her a target to other dogs?
If she was my pup, I'd change those interactions to on leash and no contact for now and then later on be selective about which dogs she has any contact with. I don't think she's enjoying it so much as just trying to find out how to avoid getting picked on, even when those puppy play urges come on with her.
 
#7 ·
Welcome to raising a puppy in a high density city with a bunch of ignorant dog owners! Isn't it fun?

I raised my GSD mix in Toronto (we moved when she was just over a year old). I ended up avoiding all of the fenced in dog parks - generally the people who go to those parks use them because their dogs have poor recall, not the kind of dogs you want to expose your puppy to, and not the kind of owners you can count on to prevent things from happening (there are exceptions but in my experience, it wasn't worth it). There are plenty of off-leash areas that are larger and have lower dog density. We spent most of our time in ravines, on trails, on the beach, and found a couple spots where bylaw wouldn't enforce leash rules; most of our dog interactions were of the "sniff and move on" variety or involved walking and exploring together. We'd do supervised play with dogs that we knew (met them on walks and the dogs got along well) but usually one-on-one or small groups. I find that a lot of problems in dog parks are because the owners stand around expecting the dogs to entertain each other and because there's a lot of dogs confined in a small space.

It doesn't sound like your dog is provoking these attacks, just that she's a puppy and she's a new dog. She might be a little sensitive and/or fearful now due to how many times she's been attacked but if a dog is attacking her because of that, that's the other dog's owner failing, not you. You cannot make a dog impervious to attack. Your best bet is to avoid situations where she might be attacked, build her confidence around other dogs in a controlled setting (obedience classes are better than puppy play time classes), and find other ways to enjoy your dog. There are plenty of other things you can do, especially since you can take dogs on the TTC at non-peak hours so you can travel fairly easily with them.

Sometimes we have to change our plans based on the dogs we have, or based on the reality of the spaces we planned to use. It sucks at first but it's worth it to keep the dog safe. I was really annoyed when I first decided to cut out fenced in dog parks but then I started to really enjoy our off-leash hikes and her engagement is so much better now.
 
#8 ·
Fearful dogs and pups tend to trigger prey drive in dogs and the worst place for that is a dog park. Your pup has a good chance of becoming dog reactive/aggressive as she gets older due to these encounters. As others have said, you have to immediately stop these risks and take her to a sensible trainer where they don't let puppies run loose. She needs lots of exposure (without interaction) with other dogs while associating them with the good stuff, like treats, play, toys and praise while you continue breathing and remaining relaxed (do not tighten the leash)
 
#10 ·
I definitely would not be thinking of trying to teach or encourage your puppy to be aggressive or fight bullies.

Work on making yourself more exciting and interesting to the puppy so you have something valuable to reward the puppy when she ignores other dogs.

Forget trying to make her more dominant and focus on protecting her by carefully choosing how she encounters other dogs and what other dogs she encounteres. If it scares her to greet strange dogs on leash, stop letting her do it. She still has injuries from this yapper dog that bit her? Give her a chance to calm down and bond with you and see you as a leadwr who will keep her safe, even from her own puppyish decisions which may not be the best thing for her. How old is she again?
 
#14 · (Edited)
Hey again thanks for the replies!

It seems the consensus is that she should not learn how to fight back. I guess that is ok because I do not really look forward to train a dog to bite anyway. She is 4 months old and I agree she is a baby, but I really don't think it is her age that is the reason, I suspect it is her personality. No other puppy in training school seems to have the same problems, and she is always the one who plays the more submissive role during dog plays regardless the size/age of her playmates, but she enjoys the play time with dogs a lot normally despite playing submissive.

I understand I should be the leader and protect her, but honestly I don't think I CAN protect her if a dog decides to fight her. I can't even do a proper push-up lol, and the only sports I am good at is distance running. She has a far better chance protecting herself while I call for help if a dog decides to seriously attack her, but I guess the best bet I have now to is to try to train her to stay away from strange dogs. This is sad though, considering how much she likes to play with friendly dogs before.



I agree that I should try to control what dogs she gets to meet, but it is almost impossible for me to do that unless she is strictly on leash all the time, which is not what I have planned to do with her for the next 15 years. So I am really hoping that I can train her to stay away from dogs off-leash.

So what did you say to the owner of this puppy aggressive dog? Did you insist that they keep their puppy aggressive dog away from your puppy?
That dog bit my dog after we just entered the playground and I did not interact with his owner beforehand. The owner said it to me after my dog was bitten, I didn't say anything, busy comforting my dog. I thought GSDs are suitable for my needs tho, after all the breed is supposed to be brave, protective, and confident. I do agree that I have not done enough research on the breeder, as I don't think my dog meets the breed standards on the confidence, protection parts. I have met other GSDs in the neighbourhood, and I can tell my pup is way more submissive/timid than them. Regardless, we have a pretty good bond in 2 months, and I don't plan on rehoming her.

I think 4 mos is too young to be taken to a dog park. Too many negative things can happen that will shape the dogs future.
An amazing trainer told me that they see no benefit with group classes. One on one is good.
Don't train a fearful dog to "fight back". This is not a good idea on so many levels. Teaching a dog to fight when afraid will result in another dog being bitten, or human being bitten when it is unwarranted.
Train your dog to find you as its playmate. Build confidence in her. She will only need her owner. Not "friends".
I agree that she should see me as more important than her dog friends, but she really does enjoy playing with other dogs normally, and I have always thought it is cruel to not let dogs interact with other dogs, but I will definitely re-consider about that.
 
#11 ·
Well ... you got "screwed" at whatever "puppy training" class that is your attending?? Beyond that ... your kinda going out of your way to put your puppy in "harms" way.

Essentially your a victim of "I thought my dog was friendly people??" Some of them have no idea and others "know" the answer is "NO" and they just don't care! There dog's behavior is not there problem, it's your problem. You can find all of them at any given "Dog Park." There are three dogs that "Should Not Be At A Dog Park." If you did not have one ... you do now.

I had one "Dominate Male" American Band Dawg. I did not quite understand what his other dog deal was at the time??? But I did understand that he had an issue. And it seemed to me that going to a "Dog Park" with him ... was not a great idea?? In San Jose in they year "2000" there were lots of "Band Dawgs" out there and I had no interest in "breaking up a "Dog Fight" so I choose to "avoid" other dogs and strive for "Dog Neutral." Worked out fine ... I don't do Dog Parks, I don't do "Dog on the Street" meet ups.

You keep your distance, I'll keep mine ... works out fine. The dogs yor "thinking you'll meet are most likely ones like my "Boxer" a "balanced Dog" but you would not find my "Boxer" in a "Dog Park." :)

Got more ... but so as to not be to wordy ... you'll find a few interesting articles here. :
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/5296377-post8.html

You've not done anything that cannot be undone but it would be best to change your approach in regards "unknown dogs."


Welcome Aboard.
 
#13 ·
I think 4 mos is too young to be taken to a dog park. Too many negative things can happen that will shape the dogs future.
An amazing trainer told me that they see no benefit with group classes. One on one is good.
Don't train a fearful dog to "fight back". This is not a good idea on so many levels. Teaching a dog to fight when afraid will result in another dog being bitten, or human being bitten when it is unwarranted.
Train your dog to find you as its playmate. Build confidence in her. She will only need her owner. Not "friends".
 
#30 ·
Hey, thanks for the overwhelming replies! When I got the email, I was shocked there were so many people wanting to help:)

Anyway, it seems the consensus is that she should be on leash and avoid off-leash areas for now until she is older. I totally agree with that, but I need to admit I really want her to be fine off-leash with other dogs some day (again the thought of her running off leash with me in that huge off-leash park 5min walking distance to my place is just too much to suppress for 15 years). A question though, how old do you define as old enough for being off-leash with other adult dogs?

Another thing, I am considering hiring another trainer/training school to help me with my pup's training. The issues I want to work on are 1) her highly excited but submissive state with other dogs (I think this is what attracts the annoyance of other adult dogs) 2) her jumping on me and other humans (I correct her everytime, so my friends, but she still does it a lot) 3) her barking for attention when I talk with other people and no one pays her attention or when a friend comes over but does not pet her 4) she barks like crazy when I tie her outside of a tim horton for 3min (I never go in when there is a huge line when my dog is with me). I still have 4 group obedience classes left where all dogs are on leash with my current training school, but I am thinking of switching to another school/trainer. Do you guys recommend a private one-one trainer or another group class thing? And do you have any recommendations near Toronto downtown west area (if you know where that is)?

And yet another thing, do you think it is a good idea to walk her on leash in the dog park or should I avoid places where there are lots of dogs all together (which is hard in my area)?

And finally I have to admit I need to change my expectations as they are interfering. I was expecting a confident, calm, and formidable GSD, and her easy-going, super excitable, and submissive personality took me by surprise. I really like her now and I will definitely work on changing my expectations/plans, but next time I buy I dog I sure will remember to do my research on the breeder and the parents of the pup.



Wow, best of luck to your dog, I am sorry that happened to your dog. That is exactly what I am afraid of, I am lucky that all aggressive dogs we have met are either small breeds or is wearing a muzzle. By the way, do you mind sharing how long it took your dog to recover psychologically?

Thanks!

If you can't physically intervene then get some tools like spray shield.

She is a baby. You want her to be brave, protectivs and confident. No German Shepherd puppy is protective. I can't imagine any puppy of any confidence level not being shook up over the amount of scary dog interactions this one has had.
Hey thanks, I didn't know spray shield existed... My family had our first dog when we were in downtown Beijing, and no large breed was allowed there so we never needed to worry our dog getting seriously injured, though we could not have the luxury of owning a large breed either.

I don't plan on using my dog for protection, but I do expect her to be brave and confident as those qualities are what got me attracted to this breed. My pup is definitely on the very submissive side even among puppies, but like you said maybe she will grow out more confident if I protect her better in the future. I will definitely work on that.

Baby dogs aren't supposed to be protective. IF it comes, it will come with maturity. Search threads on here about will an untrained dog protect. Regardless, I am not aware of any protection training that encompasses fighting other dogs. Even if your dog was old enough to be protective, there was no real threat. Many adult GSDs would not have fought a Toy breed or fight over frivolous matters. You might also want to research dog aggression and reactivity on here. It might give you a new appreciation of your non combative puppy.
Haha I actually read lots of threads here on aggression and reactivity before I got a pup as I thought that was the problems I could run into instead of this. In fact that was why I enrolled her in puppy classes --- I was afraid I need to deal with her fighting other dogs when she gets older. I definitely feel lucky that she is not aggressive though, it is just her personality comes at a surprise. She is definitely on the very submissive side (as observed from her interactions with other puppies her age), but as you have said, most of it is probably because she is a baby. I will definitely work on avoiding similar stressful situations for her so hopefully she grows up more confident:)

This kind of makes me sad because my puppy was so much like this when he was a baby but we had a great experience at puppy class. Ths teacher said at the get go that she was really careful about who played with who and how many puppies were ever loose together at the same time, she also had an assistant helping her run the class. Our class started with only 2 puppies loose at a time and I don't think there were ever more than 3 and she hand picked who played with who. My kid was the biggest puppy but the most timid to start. He totally came out of his shell in that puppy class and continued to gain confidence ever since. Loose puppies was like 1 percent of the class, too. I wish OP's puppy had had a class like that. I feel like it was valuable to him because he saw all shapes and sizes and types including one that looked like a little mop.

He is a year and a half now and totally fine with other social dogs
Awhhh, your puppy class sounds amazing. Our class has 5 puppies running loose each time, and one or two of them sometimes make me think that their owners take them there because they have already displayed some aggression issues.
 
#16 ·
Let me put it to you this way: if you keep letting this puppy have bad and traumatic experiences she willl probably grow up with lasting social problems thst make it impossible for you to exercise her around other dogs and what you said will be true about keeping her on a leash for the next 15 years.

If you step up now and keep her safe she can recover she may very well grow up to be a well balanced adult who can be around other dogs and do the things you want to do with her. If you eed to keep her on a leash to keep her safe then please do. If you can't physically intervene then get some tools like spray shield.

She is a baby. You want her to be brave, protectivs and confident. No German Shepherd puppy is protective. I can't imagine any puppy of any confidence level not being shook up over the amount of scary dog interactions this one has had.

Would you take a toddler to an 8th grade playground with a bunch of strange older kids and say good luck? Would you let your 8th grade daughter go to a high school bonfire party with a keg?

Nowhere in nature that I know of is it safe and normal for a baby to interact with dozens if stranger adults without the protection of a parent, and your puppy has been without any protection up until now.
 
#17 ·
" So, I really hope I can train her to stay away from dogs off leash".....smh, you can never " train" your dogs to stay away from dogs off leash if your dog is off leash also. When you are in proximity of dogs off leash, you have to manage your dog and the environment, which requires your dog to be ON leash. And that is not always foolproof, but fairly reliable.
When dogs are having "fun" with other dogs outside their pack, it only takes a spark( like a stick or toy or object) to trigger immediate aggression from one dog to another....you can never control this element if they are off leash....people are giving you good advice, that they have learned the hard way in some cases, don't let your feelings rationalize it away. Save your dog the experience!
 
#18 · (Edited)
10 lbs dogs under trult are unaware of their size And many seem crazy. I think I come across many many raging Yorkies-lol. I don't know what it is.
I'm surprised they have a little dog in their with the big guys. A puppy does not belong in their with the big boys- easy pickings. You have to make sure your pup has good interactions with other dogs there really is no way of assuring that unless both dogs are leashed under control and focusing on their owners-this is the safest setting for your pup. Forget the dog parks it will only traumatize your pup.
 
#20 ·
Mine are working line brings up a good point. It makes me think is why maybe those little guys do cause such s ruckus they know they can away with it. Not all little dogs either we have a chihuahua who is lot like that. He does though know how to lay down the law. I think you have the roles mixed up here. You are suppose to protect your pup from harms way this gives your dog confidence in you and strengthens your bond together and this allows your pup's confidence to grow.
 
#22 · (Edited)
Dogs do not have like us, humans, this tender loving attitude towards babies and all the young. They recognize a dog in a puppy, who is weaker, less experienced and has bad manners, and they will punish unapropriated behavior without hesitation: too bad for bold and playful puppies! Though the puppies run to them to get that what they missed with taking them away from their sisters and brothers - socialization skills. In nature their mother will guard them and protect them sometimes up to 1 year old, sometimes even when she has the next litter. So, no other dogs, puppies only before your puppy is 6 months old.I
If your dog would never meet other dogs in her life - she would miss nothing. Then, you don't have much time to put foundation for the future, first 6 months are called "a critical period". Show her new places, train new commands, play new games instead of taking her to doggy parks! Many dogs would never come there themselves anyway, that is their owners drag them there on a leash, no wonder why they are fighting. I knew a dog who was starting a fight for a purpose, he learned that his owner leaves the area when fight starts every time and decided to initiate it every time he wanted to be away from other dogs. I asked the owner, whether he goes home to feed him. That one answered:"No! He wants to play ball with me!"
 
#25 ·
This kind of makes me sad because my puppy was so much like this when he was a baby but we had a great experience at puppy class. Ths teacher said at the get go that she was really careful about who played with who and how many puppies were ever loose together at the same time, she also had an assistant helping her run the class. Our class started with only 2 puppies loose at a time and I don't think there were ever more than 3 and she hand picked who played with who. My kid was the biggest puppy but the most timid to start. He totally came out of his shell in that puppy class and continued to gain confidence ever since. Loose puppies was like 1 percent of the class, too. I wish OP's puppy had had a class like that. I feel like it was valuable to him because he saw all shapes and sizes and types including one that looked like a little mop.

He is a year and a half now and totally fine with other social dogs
 
#29 ·
I have to say I'm stunned that a English Bull Dog could hit you between the shoulder blades are you really short?? :p

But that aside for whatever reason ... Bulldogs seem to be really good at "Skateboarding and Surfing??" Kinda odd ... more to them then it would seem ... but I'm pretty sure they would "suck" at chasing Jack Rabbits across the desert ... Boxer thing. :)
 
#35 ·
I have to say I'm stunned that a English Bull Dog could hit you between the shoulder blades are you really short?? :p

But that aside for whatever reason ... Bulldogs seem to be really good at "Skateboarding and Surfing??" Kinda odd ... more to them then it would seem ... but I'm pretty sure they would "suck" at chasing Jack Rabbits across the desert ... Boxer thing. :)

I'm not short at all! But I am vertically challenged. 5' *G*
 
#31 ·
I was expecting a confident, calm, and formidable GS
Where confidence can come from if you constantly put her on trial with other dogs? Confidence comes with a greater muscle weight, when dog feels his power and vigour running and jumping, swimming and crawling. I wonder - when you are training her if you are walking around doggy parks worried about socialization? One hour your instructor explains - you should train your dog including new and repeating as much as she learned so far the whole week. Forget about people in your doggy park, you will have plenty of it in the nearest future. GSD is a working breed, your dog needs occupation, she needs to experience success repeatedly - another source of confidence. If she doesn't run to other dogs - don't leash her. The only reason why people start to think that they bought a wrong thing is - because they dyed, shortened and washed it with Domestos to such extent that it become unrepairable. That is only a saying "bold and confident", in reality dog's psychology is a very delicate thing.
 
#33 ·
Confidence comes with a greater muscle weight, when dog feels his power and vigour running and jumping, swimming and crawling.
can you explain this in further detail?

so the bigger the dog is, the more confidence it becomes? but i've seen smaller dogs that were able to assert more dominance, or is that a misconception on my part?

so if you were to let the dog exercise and let him feel his own power by running fast, or jumping high, chasing fast things like thrown balls or frisbees, then it's gonna build its confidence?
 
#32 ·
JunYue I think your chances are good of her growing up just fine if you really get proactive now.

A private trainer is probably a good idea if the focus is engagement with you in the presence of reliable under control other dogs. I really wouldn't worry about focusing on changing your puppy's approach toward other dogs, she is a baby and is going to change radically month by month as she grows with no interference by you. I would just focus on teaching her to keep her focus on you, get all her play needs met by you, and be able to do all that and recalls ect in the oresence of other dogs because in order for her to have a safe and happy life in these offleash (LATER!! :smile2: you need to have good control of her no matter what else is going on.

As for walking her on leash in these dog areas, can you avoid other dogs? If they are running up to her and frightening her then it will hurt not help the cause. You need to be able to get her to stay behind you while you head off the other dog and do all that without her being very frightened. I know you want her to be fine running offleash with dogs when she is an adult, just remember that the best way to achieve that is by diligently protecting her and changing her experiences now.

Spray Shield is good because if you use it you can just call out to the other dog's owner that it is only citronella and their dog is fine (and you probably should because they might think it is pepper spray)

Here is anaother way a trainer could be helpful, practicing scenarios like this: say trainer has a demo dog or the like that can be loose around your puppy without approaching her. You have your puppy on a long line, practice recalling in the presence if a "loose" dog. Get your puppy in close and under control so trainer and other dog can pass by (with no contact between dogs), that is the kind of training that could prepare you guys for your future life although there would probably be some groundwork necessary before doing an exercise like that.
 
#42 · (Edited)
Things are really not going great...... Today on our leashed walk, an off-leash all-black neighbour's dog (it looks roughly 30pounds and has a tag on it, it looks like a puppy to me) ran to us (where the owner is nowhere to be found) from his front yard as we walked by, my pup got so scared of the dog running towards her that she let out a big scream and dragged me towards some benches and hided under it. That neighbour's dog jumped all over me probably because I carried lots of treats, and I could not get away until throwing away lots of treats. Then I carried my pup and made a run, but the dog caught up with me easily after he finished eating those treats as because of my sprained ankle I can't really run. And I ended up with my pup screaming, trying to climb onto my head from the carry position and a dog jumping up and down on me (he seems to be trying to bite my pup's tail which was shaking violently). It sounds stupid but I ended up escaping to another neighbour's fenced front yard and locked the dog outside to get out of the situation as nobody was around to help. That dog barked at us for a while and then returned to his owner's property.

Before this incident, we have also met other off-leash neighbours' dogs before, but my pup greeted them happily and we just continued our way, and most of them only stayed on their property. This time my pup's reaction seemed to excite the dog and this stupid incident happened...

The good news is that it is getting really cold in Canada, and hopefully all those off-leash neighbours' dogs will go indoors within the next month. But I am seriously considering to only have long walks midnight for now... This incident was scary even for ME. I don't want to have my pup screaming literally on top of my head again.

I am definitely getting a trainer involved in this after this incident, as I don't think I can socialize my dog with larger darker colored dogs on my own without any more damage. A question though, do you think I should hire a trainer who just comes to my home alone (most of the trainers seem to be this way) or should I hire a trainer who takes different polite adult dog every time to my home or should I hire a trainer who meets me at a park where there are other dogs?



Hey thanks again. You are right I am definitely getting a spray shield and I am definitely getting a trainer involved... I have emailed 4 different training schools nearby right after we got home and hopefully one of them can help me deal with this.

as for the OP, i'm sorry about what your dog had to go through

unfortunate since he seemed like a very playful dog based on your prior posts

i've heard about the negative things about dog parts even before i got my dog so i never really even thought about taking my dog to a dog park
Hey, the good news is that my pup is still very playful with humans and all those incidents do not seem to have an impact on her when she is at home, she seems to be fine with light colored dogs much smaller than she is, but she is absolutely terrified of dark colored ones as all the ones who have attacked her have darker colors.
 
#34 ·
as for the OP, i'm sorry about what your dog had to go through

unfortunate since he seemed like a very playful dog based on your prior posts

i've heard about the negative things about dog parts even before i got my dog so i never really even thought about taking my dog to a dog park
 
#36 ·
I think what TheCowboysGirl has said would be what I would be doing in your place. I'm sorry to hear of the experiences of your puppy. I, too, would avoid dog parks. There is on one Post here, but I couldn't tell you where, I have no desire to take my dog there. Most of the owners go and just turn their dogs loose. They have no control over their dogs, the dogs are not trained and it's just not a safe place. Especially for a puppy. Do keep us updated as you work with him!
 
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