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Help!!! He's my first boy!

4K views 37 replies 17 participants last post by  LuvShepherds 
#1 ·
Baymax is 10 months now, intact, and starting to fully realize he is a boy. A few months ago his playmate went into heat, and that's when he first discovered the mount (promptly took him off and cut playdates for a few weeks) but outside of his playmate he didn't do much mounting/humping (with the exception of random bouts of air humping, haha) .

I've recently started taking him to the dog park frequently, now that his formal training classes are over, to keep him socialized and exercised. The first couple of weeks he was really good, played well and didn't cause trouble. But last week he became persistently interested in a female great dane, and since then has chosen a few females to try to persistently hump and he's also humping boys (I am getting so much exercise chasing him around pulling him off the other dogs!) and has really gotten into marking dozens of places. Probably the grossest thing he has started doing is licking the urine of other dogs right after they pee, and salivates to the point of dripping/drooling afterwards.

How do I address these behaviors? He is my first male dog, and I have never had to deal with this stuff before. I really need to get the humping under control because unfortunately the 3 females he has decided to persistently pursue also have owners that are super haughty about it. Like, I understand you don't want your dog humped, I wouldn't either, but I can only do so much. The very second I see him mount I sprint towards him to pull him off and try to get him to play with different dogs, but that doesn't seem to be enough for them. The first time Baymax mounted that great dane, I was a little farther away than I normally am, and as I was headed in their direction, they started smacking him in the head! While Baymax has never been aggressive with strangers in his life, who knows how he could react to someone hitting him. I mean, what kind of idiot hits a German Shepherd in the head?! That's a solid way to lose a hand.

I would also really like to get the urine licking under control. I'm afraid he's going to pick up a disease from another dog. He's fully vaccinated, but hate to take chances. Also, it's hella gross, haha.

Any tips or information is greatly appreciated! (Neutering is not an option I'm willing to do until he is 2 years old.)
 
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#2 ·
this is only one of the many many reasons that dog parks are a bad idea. the very nature of them encourages humping because they are a constant need to figure out rank and structure. Dog parks are not a good way to keep a dog socialized. You have little to no control over what will happen on a daily basis and he is still very much at the stage where a bad incident can leave him with behavioral issues that can take years of work and training to get under control. In my opinion, it's only slightly more under control than "Lord of the Flies"

Dogs aren't really designed (except for pack breeds like some hounds and beagles) to interact with strange dogs. In fact, quite the opposite. It's much better to meet up with a couple friends on occasion to have a play date with dogs that you know are well-behaved and healthy. At other times, I expect my dog to simply ignore other dogs.

The only way to curb this type of behavior is to stop and redirect him BEFORE he starts, something next to impossible to do in a dog park.

The licking other's urine is actually normal. It's a manner of more intensely smelling to learn more about the dog that left it. The saliva helps intensify the odor as well
 
#3 · (Edited)
one day one of those males that he tries to hump (which is not sexual) will take exception and before you are able to do anything about it , there will be on battle royale .

your dog is out of bounds ---

you said
I've recently started taking him to the dog park frequently, now that his formal training classes are over, to keep him socialized and exercised

do you feel you are losing the obedience ? That is supposed to be for life , not just the duration of "formal training class".
He doesn't need to be socialized in a dog park , or with any bands of other dogs . Exercise should be done with you -- not chasing dogs . That's lazy.

your dog is still young . What you do now will have lasting effects for years to come . Exercising together , with you in charge, can be a great way to make and keep the bond .
 
#4 ·
"formal" training never ends. even though they do slow down as seniors. Your boy doesn't need to socialize with other dogs. He needs to hang out and play with you. Yes, that means fetch, and long walks, hikes and adventures. Teach your boy to do things around the house. Mine helps me with laundry (no joke) and wants to help with gardening. He helps me find my coffee cup when my husband hides it from me. There are so many games you can do together.

If you take your dog to the dog park and he behaves, great. As soon as he starts testing his limits with other dogs, you both leave. Simple as that. Any behavior you don't like, don't let him practice it, no matter where you are. That goes for female dogs as well.
 
#5 ·
Of course I am still training him. I meant I am not actively taking him to a class, where he sees others dogs all the time and gets play time. I want to make sure he is not other dog aggressive, and I feel like keeping him around other dogs is a good way to achieve that. My trainer (who is the number 1 dog trainer in my city and has been training dogs for 25 years) actually suggested the dog park, so I trust her judgement.

I do not appreciate being called lazy, @carmspack. I work 10 hours a day 4 days a week, and he is left alone most of that time, except for the hour or so my brother comes over to let him out. By the time I get home, I am exhausted, but I want to make sure he gets good exercise. My weekends are dedicated to him,and I do exercise with him then. I train him throughout the week, and the dog park is just so he can use up his excess (and endless) energy.

He does have a dog he has a weekly playdate with, but she just got spayed this week, and won't be able to play for a few weeks.

When I am out training him, I expect him to ignore other dogs, and for the most part he does. He's still a puppy and gets distracted, but we are working on it. I have been teaching him a few fun tricks, like turning, playing dead, shake, and roll over, and I make him bring me his dish at feeding times. Trust me, I am engaged with him as much as I possibly can be (if I could be a stay at home dog mom, I would be!), I just need a little help in the energy department, haha.
 
#8 ·
I love dog parks. The dogs have a great time and are very happy playing. As one person that I know that goes to dog parks who trains her working line GSD in IPO stated, you just can't exercise your dog like this yourself. That owner herself was a personal trainer and avid runner. There is nothing lazy about providing a dog with the intensity of dog park play that you would normally not be able to provide yourself. It is better for your dog mentally and physically to receive adequate intense exercise in a dog park than to walk it on leash around the block a few times like so many do. Some might even consider the latter cruel. This does not mean all dogs are good dog park candidates, but if your dog is social with dogs and enjoys it, I see no reason to stop.

I am not sure about dog parks in your neighborhood, but most of the ones near me are located in a park and savvy dog park owners hike with their dogs off leash to take the edge off before even bringing their dogs into the dog parks which are frequently located at least 1/2 mile from the parking lots. I would try some off leash hiking before entering the dog park.

Your dog is lacking in training, he has no recall under distraction. You need to work on this and his obedience. You might one to try working on your dog's recall while on a long line outside of the dog park.
 
#6 ·
It just doesn't sound like your boy is a good dog park canidate. Maybe try again in a few years when he is more mature, less hormonal and has more solid obedience if it is that important to you.

I am curious as to what breeds that your trainer works with regularly? Herding breeds in general make lousy dog park canidates. They tend to be too drivey and play fun police too often to flourish in that type of environment. That your trainer recommended the dog park to a young intact shepherd, well it makes me question her experience with the breed.

Also you said you were working on him ignoring other dogs... well taking him to the dog park regularly where he associates other dogs with fun... it is going to set you back on that training goal.
 
#10 ·
My gs used to love the big dog park near my home. She could run at full speed with her friends only dog to beat her was a whippet. One day she walked by another bigger gs who had a ball in her mouth split second my dogs hind leg was bitten open 24 stitches and $800 dollars later no more dog park. It's always the other persons dog you have to look out for. Oh and that same person was there again the next day knowing his dog is toy aggressive with another ball in his mouth !
 
#15 ·
again, that would be the exception, not the rule. When you are out walking your dog on leash, you have a manner of controlling your own dog.
I hate to tell you, as an owner of a GSD, if anything were to break out involving your dog most owners would automatically blame YOUR dog even if the other dog started it.
 
#14 ·
Agree with Cliff. I have sat outside dog parks and watched the dynamics, other dogs posturing and bullying, owners doing nothing or "fluffy, nooooooooo, don't do that fluffy". Not worth the risk to your dogs or to yourself if a fight breaks out. Too many stupid people with badly mannered dogs.
 
#16 ·
Play-time for dogs is such a crappy idea.

Obedience class should be class for the dog to work with you around other dogs working with their owners. No play-time. That isn't what you are there for.

This is a problem with the current-pet industry. We want owners of pets to feel like parents of pets. Parents of furry kindergarten-age individuals. Yes, you want your kindergartener to play with other children. But your dog is a dog.

Dogs are really cool, because they do great being raised in a home with HUMANS. This does not make them a human nor give them human needs. But, we as humans want to live with a dog that follows some things that go against their nature -- like, for instance, not marking in the house. So we want to own a dog, but we want the dog to be able to live comfortably with humans. Great. This is doable.

It gets harder when we take the dogs back to places where they are encouraged to act more doggy, like dog parks, and classes that allow dogs to "socialize" together or have doggy play time. It's kind of like blurring the lines on what you want life with your dog to be like.

A dog is a pack animal. Yes, they do have fun running and playing with their own species. Some of them. Yours sounds like he is doing fine with dogs -- not afraid of them, barking or snarling at them. Good. But, they do best with individuals within their own pack. GSDs are smart. They know you aren't a dog. Fine. He doesn't ever have to determine his pack order with you. Because you aren't a dog. And that is good. But he can play with you, and get his exercise needs met with you, and can enjoy time running, hiking, swimming, watching TV with you. Oh, for a while he will be fine in the dog park and it will tire him out. Until he matures enough to not just accept it when that other dogs bulls through and bumps into him. He's going to issue a correction, and then it could be ON. And your dog will most likely be the one who takes the blame on that. Or, some other dog will bully him and hurt him -- really, it's just a matter of time. Go long enough, and your dog will hurt another person's dog, or your dog will be hurt by someone else's dog.

Because dogs are NOT programmed to run around and play in fluid, ever-changing groups. They are programmed to work as a pack, to run as a pack, to live as a pack, and to develop a territory for which their pack stays and other dogs do not go or face consequences. They are not furry kindergarteners on a play ground.

Your young male is attempting to establish pack order. He wants to know if he belongs on top or on the bottom of other dogs in the group, and he is acting like he will be on top. Thus the humping. He is telling the other dog that he is the king of this here dog park, and if they want to stay, than they just need to know that. One of these dogs is going to not take that and call his bluff, and then you will have a fight. Yay. So yes, you need to correct the behavior and personally, I would quit dog parks.

Dog parks would be fine, if they were hundreds of fenced acres where dogs and owners could hike, ride bicycles, fish, swim, train, all off lead. Where owners would bring 1-2 dogs that are fully under control at all times, and the object was not to run and play with other dogs, but to be with your owner, playing or training or exercising.

Unfortunately, that picture is not what the current pet-parent concept is all about.
 
#18 ·
I could agree with most of this, but where I live, the dogs in the dog parks are mostly regulars and they do know each other and most go from puppyhood until they are too fragile with age. Newbies aren't all that frequent, usually a flurry of young dogs in the spring.

One thing I really disagree with you on is the belief that the dogs are jockeying for position. Yes, it happens now and again. But from my years of experience with dog parks, one of the things I find most remarkable is that dogs don't view the park as their territory and are not trying to pack up and establish an order. They view the park as a neutral territory, and that is a key issue as to why I think there is so little aggression in dog parks.
 
#21 ·
If you are working with a trainer (#1 trainer in your area with 25 years experience at that) then why aren't you asking her this question?

Anyways, you're not going to like my answer. You want to fix the mounting behavior? You make the act of mounting uncomfortable.

Dogs have to be corrected to stop any unwanted behavior. Dogs do what is most rewarding for them.
 
#29 ·
Because he graduated 3 weeks ago, but only started acting this way this last week. She said I could contact her with questions whenever, but she has had a lot going on this month, and I didn't want to bother her when I have this message board to ask.

Also, I'm on the internet all the time for my job, so this was convenient :D
 
#22 ·
The dog parks here are down right dangerous thanks to the non dog savvy owners.

Lots of community toys. Lots of fighting breeds (there have been days where it is easily 75% pit bulls) Lots of intact dogs. Lots of new dogs.

Last time I was there I witnessed 2 pit bulls and a chow mix playing a three way game of tug with their owners standing around filming it on their cell phones because it was sooo cute. The game got rough too. I see stuff like that all the time.

It's rare that an owner is actually keeping an eye on their dog. And when they actually do its the "fido! No! No! No! Bad dog! Come here! No! Why did you do that?" garbage.
 
#25 ·
I see both sides.

I've taken my dogs to "off leash areas" but never actually encountered a fenced in more typical dog park. Of the two off leash areas, one is great, the other I went to a couple times and never would go again- dog fights and lots of pitbulls.

So it depends on the owners, mainly.

The argument I'd make pro dog park is that so many dogs these days are living really socially isolated lives. They are only-dogs, they are left alone all day, they do not have kids around to hang out with in the afternoons, they are basically in "solitary confinement" of some kind (even if not crated). Pretty tough life for a genetically social animal.

Rather than condemn dog parks, I'd rather these dogs got a chance to let loose, meet other dogs and get to be a dog, and run full out than that these dogs were relegated to only on-leash walks with the distracted owner on a cell phone.

I know it's not perfect, but when you think about most modern dogs' lives, I think we have to be a bit realistic as most people don't have the time, the right trail or park options to free run their dogs, or the expertise to train their dog to be safe off leash. So in that sense dog parks fill a real need, and I would hope they help keep a lot of "solitary" dogs sane.
 
#30 ·
Oh the debate of dog parks. Use to go, we don't anymore for all the reasons many have stated.
OP one thing that concerned me about your original post was that someone was actually striking YOUR dog. Yup, way to get bit and the dog will pay for that even if it isn't his fault. Not to mention the risk of developing human aggression to strangers.

I witnessed at our dog park a person KICK very hard another persons Cane Corso for what the first person thought was aggressive behavior to his friends (not even the owner) smaller dog. It was not aggressive behavior. The person just had no clue about dog behavior. The cane corso is one of the the sweetest, gentlest dogs I have ever met. They were just playing...nicely actually. It quickly became a park ranger, police matter. The owner of the cane corso all but came unglued that a stranger kicked her dog for no good reason. She held it together but called her husband and removed her dog to check for injury and called the park rangers to file a complaint against the kicker. The husband arrived and a very intense verbal altercation occurred. The owner of the smaller dog had already called the police when she realized the cane corso's owners husband was coming. Mind you the person that kicked the dog didn't even own the smaller dog. Even the owner of the smaller dog thought the action was uncalled for. Enter police. Things are calmed down and the kicker is asked to leave. He was told if the cane corso owners request to file a criminal complaint of animal abuse they would file one and he would have to explain it to a judge. Police and Rangers checked the dog over for injury. Fortunately he had no visible injuries. Also at risk was what this experience might have done to the temperament of that sweet, well behaved, obedient cane corso. Again, very fortunately he suffered no negative after effects of his attack by a human. He is still a big goofy, sweet, well adjusted and obedient dog. They were lucky. This would have never happened if all parties weren't at a dog park!!!

Unless your dog is in an actual dog fight or attacking a human NO ONE...NO ONE should be striking YOUR dog!!! Is a dog park worth that risk.

End of the day...in theory dog parks are great...in reality not so much. I do understand that for some people it may very well be the only option for a place to have open free run and play time. They have their pros and their cons. It's a choice...make it wisely and be willing to except the consequences of the the choice you make going forward.

If you can find an alternative area to exercise and play with your dog that would be a good thing.
 
#36 ·
My dog got a bit obnoxious at the dog park when she was around 10-14 months old. She wasn't modifying her play style to match her playmates, kept trying to play rough with dogs that obviously weren't so keen on it, and would try to join in when two dogs were playing happily together. We took a bit of a break, went to bigger/emptier offleash areas instead of small fenced in parks, and worked on her obedience so that she would disengage when called. At 15-16 months, we started going back (starting with parks she wasn't used to so that we wouldn't see her buddies and so I could practice getting her to disengage from play) and now she is much less obnoxious. I think she just needed to grow up a little. We used to go every day and now only go once or twice a week and that seems to have helped as well. She has adjusted just fine even though I was initially worried that she would get super rowdy without that kind of exercise. (My dog is a spayed female mix though.)

I think dog parks can be great IF the humans there are competent and trustworthy. I've generally had better experiences with larger offleash areas vs small fenced-in urban parks. I feel like the owners that frequent the smaller ones tend to not have a clue about dog body language and frequently use the parks like a big shared backyard. I only go to those kinds of parks in the morning on weekdays and meet up with some dog walkers I trust to manage the dogs in their care who have dogs that play well with mine. I do not go anywhere near dog parks on weekends and weeknights, too many idiots.

Basically: if your dog doesn't have good enough recall to disengage and come back to you, focus on training that for a while. You shouldn't have to run across the park and bodily haul him off. Until then, stay closer to your dog, and watch him for signs that he's about to try it (usually excessive interest in the target of his "affections", following them around, head over the other dog's back or shoulders) and interrupt him as soon as you see him starting up. If he keeps doing it, go to the opposite end of the park and put physical distance between him and the other dog, or leave the park. Try not to get too fixated on this "he's learned he's a boy" stuff - it's a behaviour that you find unacceptable, make that clear, and catch him early.
 
#37 ·
My dog got a bit obnoxious at the dog park when she was around 10-14 months old. She wasn't modifying her play style to match her playmates, kept trying to play rough with dogs that obviously weren't so keen on it, and would try to join in when two dogs were playing happily together. We took a bit of a break, went to bigger/emptier offleash areas instead of small fenced in parks, and worked on her obedience so that she would disengage when called. At 15-16 months, we started going back (starting with parks she wasn't used to so that we wouldn't see her buddies and so I could practice getting her to disengage from play) and now she is much less obnoxious. I think she just needed to grow up a little. We used to go every day and now only go once or twice a week and that seems to have helped as well. She has adjusted just fine even though I was initially worried that she would get super rowdy without that kind of exercise. (My dog is a spayed female mix though.)

I think dog parks can be great IF the humans there are competent and trustworthy. I've generally had better experiences with larger offleash areas vs small fenced-in urban parks. I feel like the owners that frequent the smaller ones tend to not have a clue about dog body language and frequently use the parks like a big shared backyard. I only go to those kinds of parks in the morning on weekdays and meet up with some dog walkers I trust to manage the dogs in their care who have dogs that play well with mine. I do not go anywhere near dog parks on weekends and weeknights, too many idiots.

Basically: if your dog doesn't have good enough recall to disengage and come back to you, focus on training that for a while. You shouldn't have to run across the park and bodily haul him off. Until then, stay closer to your dog, and watch him for signs that he's about to try it (usually excessive interest in the target of his "affections", following them around, head over the other dog's back or shoulders) and interrupt him as soon as you see him starting up. If he keeps doing it, go to the opposite end of the park and put physical distance between him and the other dog, or leave the park. Try not to get too fixated on this "he's learned he's a boy" stuff - it's a behaviour that you find unacceptable, make that clear, and catch him early.
That's basically what I've been doing, so I'm glad to hear I'm headed in the right direction! :)

I think I will cut down on the number of times I take him to about once a week, and definitely keep working on recall practice. Thanks!
 
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