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Old 07-02-2014, 01:11 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Brighamb - Baillif works for some sort of training facility, hence "22 dogs".

If your pup is whining when you aren't engaged with her, she could be attempting to get you to stop what you are doing (that doesn't include her) and focus on her. In other words, she is being a brat.

I'd try to give her something to do while you are working. It could be a bully stick, or asking her to stay in a specific spot and rewarding that behavior. You could also practice quiet kennel behavior during the times you need to get work done.

The idea is, you are the leader. If you aren't going to engage with your pup, she needs to settle quietly until you say it's time to play. Only you know the best way to do that with your pup as you know your pup the best.
I have water buffalo horns she chews on but after about 15-20 minutes she gets bored of them. We have a ton of toys she can chew on and play with.

When I stop doing what I'm doing when she cries its only for a few minutes. I give her some pettings, belly rubbings, etc. Then get back to work. if she continues then I let her outside and that seems to solve it since she does like keeping overwatch on the front porch or in the middle of the yard at a sitting posture.

If all she's wanting is to stay outside then I'm ok with that. I just didn't know if there was something else.
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Old 07-02-2014, 01:16 PM   #12 (permalink)
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.

When I stop doing what I'm doing when she cries its only for a few minutes. I give her some pettings, belly rubbings, etc. Then get back to work.
BINGO! You have trained her to whine and cry when she wants attention. She is doing EXACTLY what you have trained her to do. IMO - correcting this behavior at this point is totally unfair to her. She is exactly what you've created.

So - now you realize you don't want this behavior. You need to re-train her to behave in a way that you do want. Great time for you to give her her favorite chew and place her in a kennel. Ignore her. You know she's safe. Give her an hour or so of complete quiet (and you get work done) and then take her out for a break. Repeat through out the day till you are finished with your work.
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Old 07-02-2014, 01:18 PM   #13 (permalink)
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BINGO! You have trained her to whine and cry when she wants attention. She is doing EXACTLY what you have trained her to do. IMO - correcting this behavior at this point is totally unfair to her. She is exactly what you've created.

So - now you realize you don't want this behavior. You need to re-train her to behave in a way that you do want. Great time for you to give her her favorite chew and place her in a kennel. Ignore her. You know she's safe. Give her an hour or so of complete quiet (and you get work done) and then take her out for a break. Repeat through out the day till you are finished with your work.

I will work on that then. Thank you.
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Old 07-02-2014, 01:29 PM   #14 (permalink)
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BINGO! You have trained her to whine and cry when she wants attention. She is doing EXACTLY what you have trained her to do. IMO - correcting this behavior at this point is totally unfair to her. She is exactly what you've created.

So - now you realize you don't want this behavior. You need to re-train her to behave in a way that you do want. Great time for you to give her her favorite chew and place her in a kennel. Ignore her. You know she's safe. Give her an hour or so of complete quiet (and you get work done) and then take her out for a break. Repeat through out the day till you are finished with your work.
Excellent advice Lilie.

I knew this going in when I got my pup at 8 weeks. If my pup cries after all his needs are met then he gets ignored. The first few days he cried like crazy but he quickly realized that it did nothing for him. He was being a brat and I shut that down quickly. Now, he has a great off switch and can quietly hang out for hours.

Like many loving parents, you may not recognize the whining as being bratty but IMHO that is exactly what she is at that moment. Train for the behavior you want an ignore the behavior you don't want.

You don't necessarily need a trainer if you are willing to learn and do it yourself. There are a ton of great videos out there for free. Just a few short training sessions each day will make a world of difference.

Here is the "sitting on the dog" thread referred to above.

**Selzer** Sitting On The Dog
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Old 07-02-2014, 01:46 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I will work on that then. Thank you.
Heres the good news....your pup is showing focus on you. That is a good thing! Use it to your advantage!
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Old 07-02-2014, 01:49 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Heres the good news....your pup is showing focus on you. That is a good thing! Use it to your advantage!
totally agree.

Also, don't feel bad. GSDs are wicked smart dogs and are intent on training you. My 4 month old pup has me pretty well trained already--in a good way.
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Old 07-02-2014, 01:57 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Lilie View Post
BINGO! You have trained her to whine and cry when she wants attention. She is doing EXACTLY what you have trained her to do. IMO - correcting this behavior at this point is totally unfair to her. She is exactly what you've created.

So - now you realize you don't want this behavior. You need to re-train her to behave in a way that you do want. Great time for you to give her her favorite chew and place her in a kennel. Ignore her. You know she's safe. Give her an hour or so of complete quiet (and you get work done) and then take her out for a break. Repeat through out the day till you are finished with your work.
Agree 100%. Dogs do what works. It takes a long time to wean her off this behavior and you have to be completely consistent in never giving her attention for this whining. Otherwise she'll practice the slot machine effect; going on and on until it finally pays off.
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Last edited by wolfy dog; 07-02-2014 at 02:04 PM.
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Old 07-02-2014, 02:19 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Correcting the behavior if you knowingly created it is unfair. Correcting it to fix it regardless of how it was created or who created it is the right call here. Just because its unfair doesnt mean its not the way to go.

Behavior like whining and barking can and usually does become self reinforcing so it needs to be punished before it reaches that point if it hasnt already. Then the conditioning of relaxing and switching off can start to occur. But what do I know? I just do this for a living.

Negative punishment (withholding attention) cannot fix this problem if the behavior itself is positive reinforced by the act of doing it.

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Old 07-02-2014, 02:38 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Furthermore even if it hasn't reached that point yet it could easily reach that point through the just ignore it method suggested above. Why? Let's say you go up to a coke machine and it takes your money even though it's given you a soda every time you've performed that action in the past. Do you just walk away then and there? No usually you get frustrated and hit the button again and again and maybe smack the machine and maybe even put more money in. The dog will do the same thing. Except sticking with the metaphor the dog might find that it really really likes just pushing the button.

If this occurs stopping it even with punishment becomes a much harder task because it becomes a lottery situation if you can't stop it every single time it occurs until the behavior is extinguished.

Last edited by Baillif; 07-02-2014 at 02:42 PM.
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Old 07-02-2014, 02:46 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Furthermore even if it hasn't reached that point yet it could easily reach that point through the just ignore it method suggested above. Why? Let's say you go up to a coke machine and it takes your money even though it's given you a soda every time you've performed that action in the past. Do you just walk away then and there? No usually you get frustrated and hit the button again and again and maybe smack the machine and maybe even put more money in. The dog will do the same thing. Except sticking with the metaphor the dog might find that it really really likes just pushing the button.

If this occurs stopping it even with punishment becomes a much harder task because it becomes a lottery situation if you can't stop it every single time it occurs until the behavior is extinguished.
The difference between a coke machine (consistent trainer) and a slot machine (inconsistent trainer) is that when a coke machine fails, you don't try a lot longer after the initial frustrated burst but with the slot machine you know for sure that eventually it will pay off, making that habit ingrained.
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