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rough play at dog park

7K views 55 replies 24 participants last post by  martemchik 
#1 ·
My German shepherd dog loves the dog park. The problem is he loves to play rough. It's fine if the other dog wants to, but he sometimes doesn't get that the other dog is scared of him. He just turned two and has only been social with other dogs for the past 6 months. For the most part he's great, but people at the dog park will scream at me or him because they think he's mean.

I can call him off pretty good, but sometimes he doesn't come right away.

He also growls a lot when he's playing, which mak re people think he's trying to attack their dog. That's just how he plays, he's very talkative. He's never been in a fight. I just want to enjoy the dog park with him.

Any advice welcome! :)
 
#3 ·
I would not be happy with a dog rough playing with my dogs. If you have a slow recall that would make it worse.

I avoid dog parks now. I've seen to many untrained dogs, clueless owners and fights breaking out.
 
#4 ·
I have decided to stop the dog park for awhile.

I just want to clear up that he's mostly very good, mostly great recall, mostly not too rough. He loves little dogs and is never too rough with then. If we keep walking and he doesn't try to run around with another dog, he's fine. I don't want him to sound like some big park bully, because 95 percent of the time he is super and fine.

I'm going to have him start going to daycare for a couple hours per week. I think part of the problem is he doesn't get enough time around other dogs, so he gets way over excited at the dog park.

That's for the advice.
 
#5 ·
He can still scare the **** out of other dogs, making them DA. I would get him well trained and make him ball crazy. Once that is done he probably won't care about other dogs.
I am always worried about running into these kind of dogs if I have a young dog.
And it gives the breed a bad name. It is scary for the average dog owner to see an out of control adult GSD run up to them and bully their dog. So yes, I would avoid the DPs.
 
#6 ·
He really has very little interest in balls...Any ways to build interest?

Also he doesn't run up to other dogs and jump on them. He will just get rougher through out the play. Like I said, his commands are mostly reliable, at least 95 percent. I was thinking about walking him outside the fenced park and working on focus and recall some more.
 
#9 ·
This isn't really true. The people that would do that don't bring their dogs to dog parks. If they were on a walk and were attacked it is a different story.
 
#15 ·
There is a really interesting blog article somewhere I read once that explained why GSD are not dog park dogs. It basically went into how they play and what they consider to be the proper way to deal with other dogs, and how some breeds tend to be so in your face that it usually gets on the nerves of most GSD. In general, GSD are not the kind of dog who want to be social with other dogs. They, like some other breeds, tend to end up dog aggressive/reactive because of not wanting to deal with the more pushy breeds that people tend to own.

I got lucky with my golden. He was ambushed and pushed around a lot at dog parks while he was growing. It got to where he wouldn't want to interact with other dogs because he wasn't sure how it would end. And if he found one dog to interact with, some other dog would get involved and next thing I knew Myles had flattened onto his back in an effort to be uninteresting to the dog that was getting pushy with him. By all accounts, with how other dogs treated him in our time of dog parks, he should be dog aggressive. Most dogs would probably be. I'm super glad he isn't. He actually speaks dog very well and can make himself so uninteresting that even dogs who are reactive don't tend to react to him.

I think rather than doggie daycare, you should perhaps find some people who have dogs he gets along with and who realize he isn't being aggressive and set up playdates instead. Why does your dog HAVE to have interaction with other dogs? Not all dogs will like certain dogs after all. My female shepherd ignores most other dogs unless they really push her. If you push her, she will push back and she will win. I've seen it happen. But in general, she has no interest in dogs who are not in her pack. And my puppy has decided he will be a brat to new dogs, so unless I know he knows the dog well, I am not allowing him to interact anymore.

If your dog parks are anything like the ones we have, they are small and generally full of morons. The most frequented park in our area has some truly delusional people and everyone has their own definition of what is acceptable dog behavior. I prefer sticking with people I know, dogs I know and the hiking group I am in. :) Figure you can see it as setting your dog up for success? I'd rather my dog ignore other dogs than open the door for potential issues with other dogs/dog owners out there.
 
#22 · (Edited)
I think this maybe the write up you are referring to below?

http://sarahwilsondogexpert.com/why-does-my-herding-dog-seem-to-hate-labs/

Often, herding breeds do not suffer fools gladly and many may consider the “hail fellow well met” attitude of many Labradors to be foolish.
On the topic in general: I agree with the others, IMO, dog parks *generally* aren't worth the hassle, the potential downsides outweigh the benefits in most cases.

Ilda doesn't tolerate foolish behavior of other dogs too well, she's too serious. Smitty is very neutral around strange dogs, he's friendly, doesn't like to start trouble but when given the opportunity to play he'd rather go off sniff, mark and do his own thing. Autumn probably would be O.K. but we just don't see a need for it. Our dogs have a nice pack including me and hubs, they play, go places with us and seem to be happy well adjusted dogs.

As Nancy said, it doesn't seem to be as important to a dog's development and well being as maybe we thought in the past.....

There is a really interesting blog article somewhere I read once that explained why GSD are not dog park dogs. It basically went into how they play and what they consider to be the proper way to deal with other dogs, and how some breeds tend to be so in your face that it usually gets on the nerves of most GSD. In general, GSD are not the kind of dog who want to be social with other dogs. They, like some other breeds, tend to end up dog aggressive/reactive because of not wanting to deal with the more pushy breeds that people tend to own.

<snipped>.
 
#17 ·
My experience is German Shepherd dogs play very rough when they even bother to play with other dogs at the dog park.

We take or have taken ours and they were all different.
Shadow: no playing around and she wouldn't let other dogs fight.
Kazar: only concerned with Frisbee or if we didn't have one he would take the water valve cover out of the ground and use it instead. Could care less about other dogs.
Miss Molly: chased tennis ball at full speed from one end of the park to the other, only interacted with other dogs if they got too close to Maybelline or my wife, then she would sometimes charge the other dog like a middle linebacker knocking it down and returning to her ball.
Zazzle: very social with other dogs and plays easily and matches the other dogs intensity level, only 6 months old though.

The best play for them is with other German Shepherds.

Diane found German Shepherd meet-ups at Find your people - Meetup here.
Lots of GSD activities.
Maybe you can find some GSD play times near you.
 
#23 · (Edited)
The best play for them is with other German Shepherds.
Exactly.

Our breed is inherently pushy and bossy, and we need to be aware of that, and not in denial.

We think they're adorable and cute, but that is because we are used to them and think they are the most gorgeous, smart, fabulous breed.

To non-GSD people, they seem scary and aggressive.
If many of these people understood and liked German Shepherds, they wouldn't own anything else.
I can honestly say that even in the many years I longed for one, I was still intimidated when I saw one, especially if I was with my little Pekingese :D I have to think these feelings do transfer to their dogs, as well.
 
#18 ·
I am in the school that only 100% obedient dogs should be at a dog park and it should be a place where people can go play with their dogs offlead, not to expect to sit around while other dogs exercise their dogs for them. That said, it is not anything close, so I wind up using woodland areas.

I am not a fan of them and think you should not go back until your recall is fast and bombproof and if somebody does not want your dog playing with theirs, you need to have enough control of your dog to stop it.

I stuck to my guns with my current who was targeted to be a working dog and he never got to play with other dogs other than a few well balanced adults when he was a puppy. It did not seem to impair his dog skills one bit and now he relates to other adult dogs in an adult dog manner.
 
#19 ·
take your dog to a doggy day camp sometime. there are many dogs at these places that like to play rough. some don't but the rough players tend to stick together. there are people watching trained in what is too rough and can stop them or separate them if need be. it's also great for getting your dog socialized with other dogs.

our dogs go everyday 8 hours a day 'cause my wife works there and they go for free. they both absolutely love going. most dogs there also love it. sometimes they even seperate the rough players and the calmer ones into different yards.

our julie (GSD) rough playing when she was only 6 months old with her BFF stella. they are both employee dogs so were privileged to have a whole yard to themselves that day.


random one.
 
#20 ·
Dog Parks?

ColieCT said it very well, whereas the dog parks where I live are small and also filled with morons, just lazy owners that don't have a clue about dog aggression, or for that matter, dog training. Sunflowers also pointed out the best info I have found - Leerburg.com on dog parks. I agree 100% on what they say. As some lawyers say: just a lawsuit waiting to happen. IMHO. Bob:help::help::help:
 
#21 ·
i also don't go to dag parks. my dog once was sharing her ball with a pitbull. they were playing nicely 'till the pitbulls owner threw it a frisbee, when my dog went for the frisbee the pitbull snapped and tried to kill my dog. all the parks here are full of completely untrained pitbulls and i'm not taking the chance anymore.
 
#24 ·
Good point Sunflowers.

I was looking at Ilda just yesterday and thinking about how she's such a lovey, snuggly girl with 'her pack' but very aloof to people and dogs she doesn't know.

I can see how that could be perceived as intimidating by other people.

That's why it's nice to hang out with knowledgeable GSD people, they understand and don't expect your GSD to be a snuggly goof ball with every stranger that walks up.
 
#30 ·
I'm sure it has already been stated (haven't read through the whole thread) but I would shy away from all dog parks if it was me. I own Alaskan Malamutes, Siberian Huskies and a GSD and a GSD pup. I would never take any of my dogs to dog parks as there are too many unknowns with other people and amongst my dogs and the other dogs.
 
#32 ·
I'm lucky in that my favorite dog park is a private one with a good number of regulars. I've seen some scrums, but they are very quickly taken care of and repeat offenders have been banned by the staff.

Unfortunately GSDs can get very LOUD in their playing. Heinz is very good about playing nicely, especially with little dogs, he just sounds like a big meanie when he does it. If he hooks up with a big dog, we often get a great show of "grizzly bear fighting" full of sound and fury (but ultimately signifying nothing). When Heinz finds a new playmate I try to make a point to go talk to the other owner and get a sense for how worried they are about tooth baring, growling and pawing. If they seem nervous, I call Heinz off and we find some other dog to play with. If he's being obstinate about it and gets obsessed with a "forbidden" dog we call it a night, he goes back on the leash and has to wait while I finish my pint in the bar instead of in the dog yard.

Ultimately, you have to know your dog and respect that other owners don't view his behavior as benignly as you do.
 
#33 ·
I think a lot of owners of various dogs are in denial about their own dogs and don't fully understand their dogs behaviors. They view actions as innocent play or believe their dogs would never attack or be aggressive towards other dogs or people. Thing is, you never know, when where or the direct cause of an incident. Your left with questions after it has happened, along with possible vet bills for either your dog or both dogs depending on how things went down.

I found this out first hand with my own previous GSD. Well mannered, calm, did not seem fearful. Very obedient almost perfect adult GSD. He was off leash most of his life. He had the run of the house unattended with numerous cats at his disposal. Everything was fine until one day out of the blue we had him laying in the garage with us while we just sat in our lawn chairs enjoying the sunset. I seen two kids on skateboards coming down the opposite side of the street, one kid had his Australian Shepherd pulling him as they disappeared behind my truck. What I didn't realize was they had crossed the street while out of view, but it did not concern me because Rocky had never been aggressive towards other animals or people for that matter. When their dog came into the driveway, all I remember was seeing a black streak flying out of my garage and myself getting up and running after him. In about 2 seconds Rocky (my dog) chest rammed the side of the other dog putting him on his side and by that time, I had Rocky by the collar. Then looking at the boy was something I'll always remember, he was petrified. I apologized and from then on, Rocky was kept on a leader when we were out front. The boy's dog was fine, he didn't know what hit him. Had I not been quick enough, Rocky would have torn that other dog up. Strange thing is, just a few minutes before all of that, people walked a different dog past us but on the opposite side of the street and no reaction out of Rocky.

Just when you think you know, sometimes they surprise you with something you don't know.
 
#41 ·
I admire you defending your dog. I don't think anyone is saying that there is a problem with your dog. Your dog is doing what comes natural to him. What they are saying is they are still unpredictable. The growling and snapping alerts people not used to those sounds coming out of their dog and associate those sounds with an aggressive dog. That's when that recall needs to happen to tone things down a little. It may not even be your dog that starts it, but being your dog is a GSD, it's automatically his fault.

Things can escalate, and all it takes is another dog making the wrong move. Your dog may not be aggressive in certain situations, but your dog may BECOME aggressive if exposed to the wrong dog or situation where they feel threatened or you're threatened. I gave the example in my first post with my GSD. He WAS a non aggressive dog too, until that situation arose.
 
#36 ·
Why can't you go do something like hike or fetch? Something where you are actually interacting with your dog? Why go dog park and stand around having to tell your dog "no" and "stop' all day?

Btw you don't think your dog is aggressive but rough play can easily turn into a fight. Ever seen two human brothers wrestling? If your dog is in a fight good luck recalling him then. The risks of dog park Far outweigh the benefits.
 
#37 ·
Actually we do hike about 3-4 Times a week. We go to the dog park to get around other dogs. The park we go to is big and like hiking in a lot of ways. I also don't yell at my dog the whole time, he's mostly really really good there.

And he doesn't play with toys...
 
#38 ·
How old is your dog?

He's already starting to show signs of aggression. Too rough one day, turns into a fight the next day. No offense, but you sound a lot like an oblivious owner who doesn't realize what kind of dog and breed they own. Unfortunately, our breed is known for aggression and is dangerous no matter how you slice it. I always thought I had a wonderful, submissive, never hurt anything dog. Then he turned one and I saw him slam a great dane to the ground...I quickly realized that my dog was capable of a lot more than what he showed as a pup.

I'm not 100% against dog parks. I go once in a while...but I'm on my dog's butt like white on rice. If I see him focusing on a dog for 5 seconds too long, I call him over to me and we do something else, or go to another side of the park. Unfortunately, a 100 lbs lab can get away with a lot more "rough play" than my 85 lbs shepherd.

Most people won't correct someone else's dog...especially if its a GSD. So its up to you to watch owners, and watch other dogs and make sure your dog isn't being too rough or getting too excited and correct him or distract him when necessary.

And the growling thing...I don't believe in "play growling." I've seen too many dogs growl at the wrong dog while the owner was screaming "he plays like that" only to have the other dog turn around and snap at the dog that's growling. And sorry, no matter how many times you tell me your dog "play growls" its a generally accepted sign of anger/aggression and if my dog reacts to it (which he does), it's not my fault. As soon as a loud dog joins the pack...my dog leaves the pack and we go for a walk.
 
#39 ·
How old is your dog?

He's already starting to show signs of aggression. Too rough one day, turns into a fight the next day. No offense, but you sound a lot like an oblivious owner who doesn't realize what kind of dog and breed they own. Unfortunately, our breed is known for aggression and is dangerous no matter how you slice it. I always thought I had a wonderful, submissive, never hurt anything dog. Then he turned one and I saw him slam a great dane to the ground...I quickly realized that my dog was capable of a lot more than what he showed as a pup.

I'm not 100% against dog parks. I go once in a while...but I'm on my dog's butt like white on rice. If I see him focusing on a dog for 5 seconds too long, I call him over to me and we do something else, or go to another side of the park. Unfortunately, a 100 lbs lab can get away with a lot more "rough play" than my 85 lbs shepherd.

Most people won't correct someone else's dog...especially if its a GSD. So its up to you to watch owners, and watch other dogs and make sure your dog isn't being too rough or getting too excited and correct him or distract him when necessary.

And the growling thing...I don't believe in "play growling." I've seen too many dogs growl at the wrong dog while the owner was screaming "he plays like that" only to have the other dog turn around and snap at the dog that's growling. And sorry, no matter how many times you tell me your dog "play growls" its a generally accepted sign of anger/aggression and if my dog reacts to it (which he does), it's not my fault. As soon as a loud dog joins the pack...my dog leaves the pack
and we go for a walk.
Thanks for calling me oblivious despite the fact that my dog can do about every command he knows at the dog park including come with over 90 percent accuracy.also I used to run a dog daycare for large dogs, and yes dogs growl while playing a lot! And they are really just playing
 
#40 ·
Lol 90% accuracy. That pretty much means your dog isn't reliable. You are oblivious. You come here and start a post saying you encountered problems at the park and then basically spend the entire time telling everyone how awesome your dog is.

You realize German shepherds are born with natural aggression right? Your dog can be nice and friendly but another dog can be aggressive. Your dog could stick up for himself and there's a fight. I bet you get blamed. Not to mention you say your dog plays rough. That right there is a ticking time bomb for a fight.

You wouldn't have created this thread if people at the park weren't complaining about you and your dog. People here are just trying to warn you but it seems like you have it figured out with your 90% recall aka the dog chooses to come whenever he pleases.
 
#44 ·
Being oblivious has nothing to do with knowing how reliable your dog is, or understanding dog behavior because you worked at a dog day care. It’s about understanding that you own a GSD, and that even ONE aggressive incident is too much. You’d be amazed at the damage your dog is capable of in the time it would take you to get to him if he’s even just 50 feet away from you. And if he does it to a small dog? Who knows…

My dog is a lot like yours…he plays pretty well with small dogs, it’s the larger dogs that he feels he needs to put in their place. But I have realized that its WAY too dangerous to allow him to play with small dogs because if that thing snaps at him, and he decides to snap back, it probably won’t end well. So I don’t allow my dog to play with small dogs, no matter how much the other owner is trying to tell me their dog loves to play with big dogs and thinks he’s a big dog…I don’t care. On the small chance that my dog does react to something that little Chihuahua does…I can guarantee you he’ll get blamed.

You should realize that there are probably 2 other breeds that if your dog got in a scuffle with, they’d get blamed. All other dogs out there…the looks and comments will be coming your way. I remember when I was walking around a park and a labradoodle was busy trying to hump away at my boy…the owner was probably a good 100 yards away. If I hadn’t taken it into my hands to remove the doodle myself…no one would’ve cared that the thing was trying to dominate a GSD for the last 5 minutes and so finally the GSD told it off.

So maybe the best way of putting it is that you’re not oblivious to your dog, or dog interactions. You’re oblivious about what other people (the general public) think of your dog, our breed, and any type of aggressive behavior that a dog exhibits.

For example…if our two dogs were at the dog park, and your dog started to “play growl” at my dog, and my dog decided to grab him by the neck and slam him to the ground…what would your post be on this forum? Would you say, “my sweetest, nicest, little boy, was attacked by a vicious GSD at the dog park today. All my boy did was try to initiate play by growling at him and that dog grabbed him by the neck and tried to kill him! People shouldn’t bring dogs like that into the dog park!”

Sorry…I’ve just seen it too many times on this forum. There was one a year or so ago about how his female “didn’t mean to put punctures in the other dog, he was just getting too annoying.” Right…the punctures were an accident even though I’ve watched my dogs grab each other all the time without breaking skin...
 
#45 · (Edited)
I'm a little disturbed to be a new member of a forum where people call others oblivious...

1-no animal performs with 100 percent accuracy. Not even people.

2-my dog doesn't snap at other dogs or get after them out try to put them in their place. He does great with almost all dogs at the park, the only time he had trouble is when he wants to play rough and the other dog doesn't. What will happen is he paws at the other dog and they tell him no and he doesn't listen. He had been corrected by dogs before and he takes it fine, but don't dogs he just doesn't listen to. He had never been in or any part of a dog fight. Most people at the park love him and he has lots of friends there.

3- aggression means intent to do harm, wrestling and rough housing is not aggression.

He went to daycare today and did awesome.
 
#48 ·
Just so you know, not everyone hates dog parks here.
Like you, I take my dog to dog parks, beaches, doggie day camp. Up to now it works for us. Like yours he has many friends ( dog park small dogs and big dogs mixed together).
Some dogs and some people shouldn't go to dog parks though. If Dex becomes one of those, then I won't take him.

In regards to rough play, everyone knows him at the dog park so they don't have a problem with him playing with their small dog. Never the less, I don't allow him to get excited and trample any of them. We mostly play in the big dog corner. If anyone new would come and they are apprehensive of my dogs play, I respect that and immediately recall him. We're not perfect but I try to put the shoe on the other foot. I would never just allow my dog to pester another dog whether I feel like its play or not. Maybe 6 months from now, we won't do dog parks, who knows. But I agree, things could happen anywhere as Ive read on this forum, you can walk down the street with your dog on leash and be attacked by another dog.
 
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