Jack's dropping the ball...

[JackandMattie]

But when he's only about halfway back to where I'm standing.

He used to be a super-fetcher. Granted, we kept four balls in play: One for Lillian, one for Mattie, and two for Jack.

As soon as he released the first at my feet, I would throw the second. We had a rhythm, and it was SUCH a pleasure playing with him. And I was able to wear him out.

But, that has been changing lately. I think some of it is because he has finally settled in with me and trusts me. It's been just over a year since I literally had to carry the fearful little malnourished 65-lb wretch out of the Humane Society's offices.

Now that he's been with me and gained a good deal of confidence, I'm afraid I didn't do him any favors not getting to the obedience part of things sooner. Problem was, he was just so darned scared of everything (including me), that I couldn't do any corrections. And his fear had him so shut-down, there weren't a whole lot of behaviors I could positively reinforce, either. I couldn't even train him to sit, because he wasn't food-motivated, and he literally never put himself into a sitting position.

Ok, well, we're past that, now. He comes (very, very well), and he sits (most of the time, getting worse), and he knows down (sometimes), kennel up (perfect), and place (so-so). He won't stay, but I think I'm going to be able to make progress there with treats.

I'm rambling. Back to the point. When he drops the ball only halfway back across the yard, I have to go get it. And even worse, he's been getting SO greedy with the ball, that he will bring one back, drop it, and then just as I throw the second he will scoop the first back up and take it with him to retrieve the second.

Our rhythm is destroyed, and the sad simple fact is that *I* have become the retriever.

Part of the trouble was that the girls will linger and scoop up his first retrieved ball, but I already had that solved, making sure they had their own.

Oh, and if me scooping up the first ball before he can scoop it back up is a solution, I don't have a snowball's chance in he__. He is a master dribbler and he can literally play dribbling keep away with two balls at a time. In fact, I think it's newest game and it consumes him. Problem is, it doesn't wear him out

On top of this, he has also started blocking me to get my attention. I try to just walk through him, but he's better at it than I am. He has almost tripped me up a few times this past week or so, and he's getting MORE obnoxious about it every day.

We just passed the two-year-old mark. Anyone have advice about a young dog coming out of his shell a little too fast and hard for his lame human to keep up?

[JanaeUlva]

We have a rule when playing two ball and that is the dog can't drop the ball before I say out. If she does I go "Ahhh you dropped the ball" and do all the body posture that says "nope" no second ball. Then I say "go get your ball" and wait her out. As soon as she picks up the ball and starts towards me I say out and throw the next ball. Once she gets the idea that she has to have the ball in her mouth then I start working on bringing her in closer, tell her out and throw the next ball. So all forward movement by the handler stops, the body straightens up and the posture says "not throwing the next ball" until you go back and get the one you had. We worked on this when she was young so she knows the rules well now. But I can remember sitting down and waiting her out. Finally she would bring the ball towards me then i would tell her out and throw the next ball.


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[JackandMattie]

Originally Posted by JanaeUlva

We have a rule when playing two ball and that is the dog can't drop the ball before I say out. If she does I go "Ahhh you dropped the ball" and do all the body posture that says "nope" no second ball. Then I say "go get your ball" and wait her out. As soon as she picks up the ball and starts towards me I say out and throw the next ball. Once she gets the idea that she has to have the ball in her mouth then I start working on bringing her in closer, tell her out and throw the next ball. So all forward movement by the handler stops, the body straightens up and the posture says "not throwing the next ball" until you go back and get the one you had. We worked on this when she was young so she knows the rules well now. But I can remember sitting down and waiting her out. Finally she would bring the ball towards me then i would tell her out and throw the next ball.


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Thank you! I was already writing too much, so didn't explain...we already had that down. If he didn't bring the ball all the way back I would hide the second ball behind my back and shake my head and say "nope" and then get excited and wiggle my fingers and say "get the ball, get the ball."

And he would run back and hunt down the first ball and bring it and drop it and I would throw the second. He understood that was the only way the game would continue, and he worked for that reward.

He KNOWS "get the ball." He knows that when I wiggle my fingers that way it means get the ball. And he and I have walked back and forth grid style through the field hunting lost balls so often that he started doing it naturally if he can't see the ball immediately.

My actual problem is his newfound sense of obstinance. He is toying with me when he drops the ball out of my reach. And when he dribbles it in front of me.

And he is stepping into my path and stopping me. New (2-week old) behavior that I am SO over.

I guess I'm answering my own question, here, and realizing that what this dog really needs is more focused obedience. Just wish I'd had a little more lead time. We spent several long months in the fearful stage, a few in really-good-dog stage, and now I'm seeing a bully emerging

[Lilie]

Originally Posted by JackandMattie

He KNOWS "get the ball." He knows that when I wiggle my fingers that way it means get the ball. And he and I have walked back and forth grid style through the field hunting lost balls so often that he started doing it naturally if he can't see the ball immediately.

Have you considered he has found a game he likes better than fetch? It could simply be that he loves 'find it' better. Have you thought about putting fetch on hold for a little while and incorporate different finding games?

[Anthony8858]

My dog started doing the same thing. Then I realized that she was reading my signal, and dropping the ball in her heightened anticipation of throwing the second ball. She knew that dropping the ball, meant throwing the ball. She was reading me and my signals. (brat)

I corrected this by not communicating with her during the return. As soon as she grabbed her ball, and started her return, I would turn my back to her. In a confused state, she would first come running over and try to see my face (still holding her ball). At that point, I gave her loads of praise, and "out". As soon as she dropped her ball, I would throw the next one.
Eventually, she made the connection that she would have to come to me to continue.

[Blanketback]

Maybe a flirt pole would be good? It's great for teaching "Drop it" because that's when all the fun starts, and it's always in your hands, so no running off with it. Or maybe use a different fetch toy? I switched to a frisbee and this made a world of difference. I also taught him to hand it to me instead of dropping it at my feet and he's totally loving this game now. I bought a "Chewber" 'tug & toss' so he's getting extra fun chomping on it too, unlike the other ones that were ok for dogs, but definitely not chew toys.

[JeanKBBMMMAAN]

There is a chapter in The Other End of the Leash about fetching that might be helpful to you. I think libraries typically can get the book.

Human Bond With Dogs, Behavior of Dogs and People, Dog Psychology | Patricia McConnell Blog

February 8th, 2013 Surely our mutual love of play is one of the reasons that dogs and people get along so well. As Karen London and I write in Play Together, Stay Together, “Play is powerful stuff. It influences so many things, including development, motivation, emotions, physiology, communication and behavior. Wow! That’s an impressive list.”
After years working as Applied Behaviorists, it was clear to Karen and I that play has the power to strengthen one’s relationship with a dog, or alternatively, to destroy it. You can use play to teach self control and good manners, or to inadvertently teach a lack of frustration tolerance and a lot of rude behavior that ends up getting a dog into trouble. You can use play to allow a dog to release tension, to learn a behavior incompatible with a problematic one, or to become wound up and hyper-reactive. The list goes on and on. Play is so important that one of my favorite seminars is one I did on play (Dog Play DVD), talking about both between dogs and between people and dogs.

[JeanKBBMMMAAN]

There is a chapter in The Other End of the Leash about fetching that might be helpful to you. I think libraries typically can get the book.

Human Bond With Dogs, Behavior of Dogs and People, Dog Psychology | Patricia McConnell Blog

February 8th, 2013 Surely our mutual love of play is one of the reasons that dogs and people get along so well. As Karen London and I write in Play Together, Stay Together, “Play is powerful stuff. It influences so many things, including development, motivation, emotions, physiology, communication and behavior. Wow! That’s an impressive list.”
After years working as Applied Behaviorists, it was clear to Karen and I that play has the power to strengthen one’s relationship with a dog, or alternatively, to destroy it. You can use play to teach self control and good manners, or to inadvertently teach a lack of frustration tolerance and a lot of rude behavior that ends up getting a dog into trouble. You can use play to allow a dog to release tension, to learn a behavior incompatible with a problematic one, or to become wound up and hyper-reactive. The list goes on and on. Play is so important that one of my favorite seminars is one I did on play (Dog Play DVD), talking about both between dogs and between people and dogs.

[martemchik]

I don't allow dropping the ball at all unless we're playing with the golf club chuck-it. Otherwise he has to hand me the ball and I kind of prefer just one ball. That way you don't get that excitement for the second ball before the first ball is back. If he does drop it...and doesn't pick it up when I say take it...it gets kicked so he has to chase it a few feet and then he gets the picture.

[JackandMattie]

Originally Posted by Lilie

Have you considered he has found a game he likes better than fetch? It could simply be that he loves 'find it' better. Have you thought about putting fetch on hold for a little while and incorporate different finding games?

I have thought of that, recently, as a result of spending some time on this site. Thank you!

Just not in this instance. In this instance, his new favorite game is keep-away, not find-it.

But, Yes!, it is definitely time to start adding some new games that make him think a little harder.

He knows "get the ball" and "get the Wubba." I've been trying to find something else that interests him that I can hide for him. It can't be food, tho...the Weimaraner will sniff it out before he gets a chance every time. She's a greedy, sneaky thief