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Old 01-11-2013, 10:37 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Kira's playful behavior in this video... Opinions

I take Kira to a local open field just about every day. We get a chance to walk, and fetch, and do some basic training. No one is ever there. We're always alone.
On this particular day, someone happen to show up with a black lab. The dog charged our area, and before I could decide whether or not to remove her, they were playing. So I let them be for a short while.

Kira HAS NOT had any interactions with other dogs. She was injured by another dog 4 months ago, and I've been avoiding any opportunity for another encounter.

Take a look at this video.
Tell me what you see.
Is there any clue why Kira may have gotten attacked in the past?

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Old 01-11-2013, 11:07 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Anthony8858 View Post
I take Kira to a local open field just about every day. We get a chance to walk, and fetch, and do some basic training. No one is ever there. We're always alone.
On this particular day, someone happen to show up with a black lab. The dog charged our area, and before I could decide whether or not to remove her, they were playing. So I let them be for a short while.

Kira HAS NOT had any interactions with other dogs. She was injured by another dog 4 months ago, and I've been avoiding any opportunity for another encounter.

Take a look at this video.
Tell me what you see.
Is there any clue why Kira may have gotten attacked in the past?

Kira with Lab - YouTube

Just normal dog playing there!

Attack must have been just another wacky aggressive dog.

Your dog seems very normal playing.
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Old 01-11-2013, 11:10 AM   #3 (permalink)
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That lab seems to take a high road when they are both vying for the stick. Very playful and comfortable backing off until the opportune moment. I might, in my uneducated mind, be careful with guarding objects around other dogs. Some understand the signal, others not so much. By no means am I claiming that Kira has a problem with resource guarding - I am just saying that with another less playful dog who is more assertive (and they both try to establish rank by controlling resources) you might have a scuffle on your hands.

As far as Kira's behavior, she didn't look spooked or flighty (which you said was the cause of the original attacks on her) but I would have loved to see the initial reaction and introduction - would tell more about her than how she is here. She looked pretty comfortable having another dog around in that video.
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Old 01-11-2013, 11:25 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Of course it would have been easy to have used it as an opportunity for obedience training instead. No flags other than she is possessive of the stick which could backfire with a different dog but....I would have just called my dog to heel, been polite and gone elsewhere.
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Old 01-11-2013, 11:31 AM   #5 (permalink)
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That lab seems to take a high road when they are both vying for the stick. Very playful and comfortable backing off until the opportune moment. I might, in my uneducated mind, be careful with guarding objects around other dogs. Some understand the signal, others not so much. By no means am I claiming that Kira has a problem with resource guarding - I am just saying that with another less playful dog who is more assertive (and they both try to establish rank by controlling resources) you might have a scuffle on your hands.

As far as Kira's behavior, she didn't look spooked or flighty (which you said was the cause of the original attacks on her) but I would have loved to see the initial reaction and introduction - would tell more about her than how she is here. She looked pretty comfortable having another dog around in that video.
You're right on target. I saw (what I perceived) as some guarding. I've never seen this from Kira. I agree 100% that she would have gotten in trouble if she would have acted that way with a dog with a resource guard problem.

The reason why I posted this video, is because many months ago, Carmen suggested I be careful that Kira doesn't start something she can't finish.
I'm wondering if one reason why she's always getting trouble, is because maybe she has a dominant personality, and not the timid, shy dog I thought she was.
Others have told me that they've seen her sneak in a snarl or two around other dogs. Maybe she's the instigator.

What if.... She were to give off a dominant signal to a dominant dog?

This may all be wrong, but I did see something very different in her behavior, than what I've seen in the past.
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Old 01-11-2013, 11:34 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jocoyn View Post
Of course it would have been easy to have used it as an opportunity for obedience training instead. No flags other than she is possessive of the stick which could backfire with a different dog but....I would have just called my dog to heel, been polite and gone elsewhere.
Nancy,
That's exactly what I did a few minutes later. They stopped playing after this brief video, and he went to the other side. We did do some ob work, and the whole time she kept looking at that dog.
I found it much harder to go through our routine, but we did it.
But I do agree.

It's a constant learning process... for me.
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Old 01-11-2013, 11:44 AM   #7 (permalink)
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its possible, most dogs will make a big show of themselves and 90% of the times cannot back it up and will flight if the charade doesn't work (or fight if they are at home or close to home - as they leave that circle that is "home" they'll be less and less likely to fight and more likely to flight - but a huge part of that is also personality). So its possible that what you did not see what Kira showing dominance, the other dog not impressed, and what you did see was the other dog pursuing Kira and Kira hitting fight or flight and choosing flight.

So, its possible that you missed the signals that Kira was giving up and only noticed the actions that followed (which were much less subtle).

Why do I keep saying "its possible"? Because without seeing it, we have no idea what could have triggered it or what could have happened. It's all just grasping at straws at this time.

When all else fails, and you analyzed every possible scenario and cannot come up with a consistent reason for the action you are analyzing, just remember: dogs are weird

by the way, are we still hitting that trail tomorrow morning? could be fun, but I'm not sure how early you usually get up. I can't stay in bed past 7:30AM because of the constant staring (you know by who hehe)

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Old 01-11-2013, 12:21 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ayoitzrimz View Post
its possible, most dogs will make a big show of themselves and 90% of the times cannot back it up and will flight if the charade doesn't work (or fight if they are at home or close to home - as they leave that circle that is "home" they'll be less and less likely to fight and more likely to flight - but a huge part of that is also personality). So its possible that what you did not see what Kira showing dominance, the other dog not impressed, and what you did see was the other dog pursuing Kira and Kira hitting fight or flight and choosing flight.

So, its possible that you missed the signals that Kira was giving up and only noticed the actions that followed (which were much less subtle).

Why do I keep saying "its possible"? Because without seeing it, we have no idea what could have triggered it or what could have happened. It's all just grasping at straws at this time.

When all else fails, and you analyzed every possible scenario and cannot come up with a consistent reason for the action you are analyzing, just remember: dogs are weird

by the way, are we still hitting that trail tomorrow morning? could be fun, but I'm not sure how early you usually get up. I can't stay in bed past 7:30AM because of the constant staring (you know by who hehe)
Everything you mention could very well be possible. It's something I've been trying my best to understand, and get a hold of.

Honestly.... I feel so much better since committing myself to keep her away from "dog-park-packs". One less thing to worry about.

Call me or I'll call you tonight. We'll make arrangements, and you tell me how to do this.
Early morning is fine for me.

OH, just an FYI..... I heard that the dog that attacked Kira 4 months ago, caused serious harm to another dog. I heard the other dog needed surgery to repair lots of skin damage.

Last edited by Anthony8858; 01-11-2013 at 12:25 PM.
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Old 01-11-2013, 12:34 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Watch the video starting at the 52 second mark. Lab is using calming signals by looking away, licking lips and sniffing the ground. Kira is looking straight ahead at the lab which a more challanging posture.

I don't think Kira did anything wrong in this video btw, but it's the lab that kept things on an even keel in my opinion.
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Old 01-11-2013, 12:50 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Watch the video starting at the 52 second mark. Lab is using calming signals by looking away, licking lips and sniffing the ground. Kira is looking straight ahead at the lab which a more challanging posture.

I don't think Kira did anything wrong in this video btw, but it's the lab that kept things on an even keel in my opinion.

Interesting observation. I didn't see this.
I love the subtle way dogs commiuncate. I'm fascinated by it...

That's why I post these stupid little videos
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