Female with domanance issues.(Long post)

[msvette2u]

I've also seen it many many times where similar aged opposite sex pairs, where the female will take the upper hand, and not let it go.

We just adopted out a Great Dane to a Great Dane owner, and their existing dog was a male. The girl, from the moment she met their boy dog (who is roughly the same age) gave one snarl and that was it.
She was the boss and he was the underling in that home. They now refer to him as "little brother" and she's the bossy older sister.

IMO, and yes, this is my theory now, girls try that crap with each other, there's going to be **** to pay.
Because as soon as the lip goes up, it's "The **** you say!!" and boom, it's on.
And girls "see red" apparently, because that's how they fight. Absolutely not wishy-washy.

And to use ourselves as an example again, we recently had a female mixed breed, part Pug, I think, who would leave the boys alone, run right by them to get to another girl. She just knew, and we had to adopt her to a no-other-dogs home or one with a male, never a female. She'd zoom in and attack, no questions asked.

You can discount it, call it "anecdotal" or whatever, but when it's going on in your home, you know it exists.

[codmaster]

Originally Posted by msvette2u

So pleased you believe it was me who came up with it, but sadly, I can't take the credit.

I really don't care if you believe female-female aggression exists, it's your house and home, but again, when you have one such bitch that can't tolerate other girls, you will know it. You won't be sitting around here running people down, people with much much more experience with multiple females than I have, and more experience than you, apparently, will ever have.

Yours is an extreme case of "yet", and more power to ya on that

Likewise it doesn't make any difference what you think or believe!

But it would be really nice if you would actually read what I wrote (for example where did I ever say that female-female dog aggression doesn't exist?).

Could you please just point that out?

If you can't, it would also be really nice if you could force yourself to stop misquoting or misinferring what I said. (although it does seem to make it easier for you to respond!).

And likewise, where in this thread did I "running people down"? Can you please point the post where I ran anybody down about female-female aggression versus male-male aggression?

Just out of curiosity, is a female dog who couldn't get along with another female dog that you owned the basis for your belief that "Females fight to the death" belief? I am truly sorry that you may have had such a bad experience! That had to be very difficult.

And i certainly do hope that you never have the misfortune of having a male dog who can't get along with another male dog as these dogs also clearly exist (whether you have ever owned one or not!).

Then you might unfortunately have to learn that male dogs can also sometimes want to "fight to the death". It is a very bad way to learn that though, so hopefully you will not ever own such a dog!

You are correct though in citing my limited experience - in my 40 or so years of owning and training GSD's: I have only had about 8 or 9 adults and some more puppies and sub adults, with at most 3 at a time so clearly I don't have a great deal of experience with GSD's.

So all I can relate is my limited experience and that of the fairly numerous friends with dogs.

[lhczth]

have lived with intact and spayed females that got along great with no or only a couple of minor scuffles. This worked great for the first 20 years I had dogs. Then I had sisters. Alexis is my main problem. Spayed female, btw. She is an instigator and has gone after Vala, went after Deja (until Deja got her down on the ground and was shaking the you know what our of her) and picks on Elena. Vala, for the most part doesn't want to fight and I can stop her easily. Couple of times she decided to get nasty with her mother just a yell stopped it from escalating. She and Deja have scuffled. I was able to stop it but Vala got a cut over her eye and I decided that vet bills or badly injured dogs was not worth those two ever being loose together again. Same with Deja and Elena. It isn't worth it to me to have either injured though they have gotten loose together and just postured, I separated them and all was fine. There is no hate involved. Just dominant females. They can visit through the crate doors, sniff noses, etc and there is no growling or nasty behavior.

Deja and Alexis HATE each other. That fight would be to the death (of Alexis since she is old and crippled). It happened once last year when I was in a rush and didn't get the door on Alexis' crate latched all the way (her crate is now latched and snapped closed at all times since he figured out how to pop the door open). It happened so fast there was no time to react. Only thing that stopped the fight was the location and that I was able to push Alexis back into a crate and crush both their heads in the door until they let go. Deja had a couple of nicks. Alexis ended up with a bite on the leg that left enough blood in my kitchen that one would have thought I had slaughtered someone. I had several superficial bites on my hands and bruising on my left hand and a leg from trying to get between them and the wall. I was also lucky.

Right now Vala and Elena run together. Hopefully that continues to be that way. Would make life easier. If they snark they will stop with a loud "knock it off". Both Elena and Vala are good with dogs outside their pack and will play with other dogs. Deja used to be, but she has gotten a bit less tolerant as she got older.

I tend to like to work extremely dominant bitches which may be why I now have more issues than I did with my first dogs.

I have never owned multiple males, but a friend did (he had 4 or 5 at one time) and they could all run together. His dogs are very much under his thumb and he a no tolerance rule in his "pack".

So, more anecdotal evidence which is the only type you will ever find.

[msvette2u]

When you ask why f-f aggression is "such a big deal", people reply and then you say things like "Too much opinion about this and little or no objective evidence..." as if you are just waiting for someone to reply to your question so you can discount them, yes, I see that as "running them down".
Especially someone who has had multiple dogs, like Lee, who probably owns, concurrently, more dogs than you've owned successively in your life.

And now, I'm off to sled (we don't see snow that much, gotta play while we can) so you can bait someone else for a while

[Jag]

I have had male-male aggression which was VERY scary. However, I agree that 2 bitches take it to another level. My pug has gotten into it with our old lady. It's exactly like that... "WHAT did you say?!?!?" and it IS on! They will NOT stop unless someone steps in and physically breaks it up. If the pug and Grim get into it, a vocal intervention will stop it. It's not ALL females, it's dominant females. It's not about order, rank, or anything else. It's just about 2 bitches who decide it's time to scrap. They do live together OK after a scrap, but they will do it again and again. It's a look that sets it off. Someone gets too upity. The male-female fights have more of 'substance' to them, and it's not frequent. In day to day life, they still have their weeks of 'someone gives'. With the bitches, no one gives. Ever. Not because they're female, but because of a dominant female in the mix. Lee has it exactly right. That's just how they are. Argue it to death, won't change a thing. Oh, and all females in the house were spayed as pups.

[ed1911]

A quick update. Using e-collars any time either of the dogs approached the other posturing (which was how the fights started) I would give a verbal and physical correction using the collar. I did this for a couple of days, anytime they were in a room together I was there controlling the collars. We have had no more aggression issues with these two. Socialization with the training groiup is going well and we are going to test for her CGC in a couple weeks.

[pets4life]

you do not talk about pitbulls when talking about same sex aggression pits are bred for dog fighting of course either sex will fight to the death.


when talking gsds i agree after owning a female they are 10x worse when it comes to being violent towards another dog. Everything is fine but when they argue there is nothing but blood and you will never get one off the other. With my male or males i know people never have to worry about that as far as i know when they fight they dont put holes into each other then wag their tails like nothing went on.

I also noticed some females will just keep going and not stop while u are pulling on their bag legs they will still be hanging on with their jaws. Or sissor lock each other.

[pets4life]

Jag did you say your pug is fighting your gsd? lol that is too funny.

[pets4life]

**comments removed by Admin. Really nothing to do with this discussion**

With gsds you will see a differance between sexes who are both dominant. Not every single female we are just talking dominant or just certain individuals probably more common from working lines im guessing.

[Whiteshepherds]

Is F-F aggression something you can try to predict by previous behavior from other females in a bloodline or does it just pop up randomly?