Flirt Pole Issues

[onyx'girl]

Just stay fluid with your movements....don't be jerky or make him launch high. My dog is 90# and it is a bit tricky to play with it, but I keep it high value by short sessions and it isn't something I use to wear him out.
I don't want him skidding either....scared of an ACL tear or spine out of whack issue.

[Nigel]

Originally Posted by wolfy dog

I know WD would love to play like this (i used to do this briefly when he was tiny) but I am worried that the quick and sudden movements and the force behind it (85 lbs!) will lead to injuries. What are your experiences with this form of play?

I worry about injuries too. I try to not make to many erratic type movements that will cause her fall/slip ect. One of her favorite moves is to cut across instead of following in a circle and nailing it on a leap. Once she clamps on she let's the rest of her body swing around. I'm sure it looks impressive and is fun for her, but I don't want her doing it, so once she tries to cut, I stop circling.

We had a scare a couple days ago, but we were playing fetch. She hit a patch of ice and slid onto her side and then continued to slide under a section of chain link fence. Her head and shoulders went completely under. She froze for a second and as I grabbed onto the fencing to lift it, she started to try and free herself. She got backed out and took off after where the ball had landed before I could look at her. Luckily the chain link was folded over instead of cut and twisted. She didn't have a scratch on her.

[wolfy dog]

Originally Posted by Nigel

I worry about injuries too. I try to not make to many erratic type movements that will cause her fall/slip ect. One of her favorite moves is to cut across instead of following in a circle and nailing it on a leap. Once she clamps on she let's the rest of her body swing around. I'm sure it looks impressive and is fun for her, but I don't want her doing it, so once she tries to cut, I stop circling.

We had a scare a couple days ago, but we were playing fetch. She hit a patch of ice and slid onto her side and then continued to slide under a section of chain link fence. Her head and shoulders went completely under. She froze for a second and as I grabbed onto the fencing to lift it, she started to try and free herself. She got backed out and took off after where the ball had landed before I could look at her. Luckily the chain link was folded over instead of cut and twisted. She didn't have a scratch on her.

Yes, there are so many scares already due to his intensity while fetching that I have decided not to use the flirt pole. I think it is safer for short legged terriers

[Nigel]

Originally Posted by Castlemaid

I'd let her win and run away with the flirt pole. The chase/hunt drive needs to be completed of catching the prey, defending it from others who might want to take it, bringing it back to the den, and having possession over it. That is why when doing bitework, the dogs are allowed to take the sleeve and just hold it while they calm down, or hold it while the handler walks/runs with the dog.

Not being allowed to work through the drive stages can be more frustrating for some dogs than others. The more frustrated they get, the harder it is for them to release.

I would do a number of things in your situation.

Do shorter sessions and stop before Zoey gets to the point where she won't release. Eventually, you will be able to do longer and longer sessions before she gets to that point.

Let her win more. Play tug more. Let her pull the flirt pole out of your hand and run away with it. If she is just going to take it to a corner and chew on it, then have a leash on her. When you release the flirt pole, grab the leash and run around with her until she is tired of running around and carrying dragging the flirt pole. This may be 30 seconds or 10 minutes, depending on the dog. When she drops it on her own, praise and start the game again. Her reward for dropping is the game starting up again.

Another thing you can try is to have a pocket tug on you, or a ball. When she is not releasing, redirect her to the tug or ball - immediate reward for releasing the flirt pole.

Occasionally, have a 'release free' game. Don't say a word, let her win, let her drop it on her own, redirect her to another toy, if necessary. You don't want the release to become a source of conflict between the two of you that is no fun for neither the human nor the dog.

Not sure if this will help, but it will give you a bit of insight in how to work with this issue.

This is working! Once she starts refusing to "out", I drop it and let her parade around and shake it. Once she drops it I praise like crazy and pick it up. Sometimes she'll try to grab it again when I'm reaching for it and if she gets a hold of it, I'll wait 10-20 seconds until she drops it again. We've only played twice this week and I can see she is figuring it out.

I want to try it with a tug, but I'll have to do it when the wife is at work, she is anti tug.

Thanks again Lucia!

[onyx'girl]

Another thing to do is when she wins(make sure she 'counters' to get a deeper grip before you let her win), encourage her to calmly hold it while you cradle her lower jaw, using your other hand to gently stroke her. It helps in the drive transition, and you do want to encourage a calm hold, not a thrashy kill. Many times you can ask for an out when the dog is in that calm state.

Why is the wife anti-tug?

[Nigel]

Originally Posted by onyx'girl

Another thing to do is when she wins(make sure she 'counters' to get a deeper grip before you let her win), encourage her to calmly hold it while you cradle her lower jaw, using your other hand to gently stroke her. It helps in the drive transition, and you do want to encourage a calm hold, not a thrashy kill. Many times you can ask for an out when the dog is in that calm state.

Why is the wife anti-tug?

How should stop her from shaking it? Will cradling/petting calm her down/away from the shaking.

DW has been told by one of the trainers that playing tug encourages aggression or something along those lines. I need to read up on it so maybe I can convince her otherwise.