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Old 12-18-2012, 07:37 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default just wont listen!!!

Hello,

I need help. Jack, my seven year old male shepherd refuses to listen to me. He will listen to my wife on occasion unless someone is at the door or he sees someone outside he will bark at the window insanely! I think he is totally out of control.The dogs mother did not like men and was female oriented (I schould have seen trouble then) We have taken him to good trainers twice the first trainer said he has never seen such a stuborn gsd the second trainer did real well with him but told me that the dog did not respect me the dog behaved like a different dog for the trainer, as soon as he left boom back to not listening we have tried lots of types of corrections he doesnt care the vet thinks he has attention defecet disorder I think he is just RETARDED ! when my wife comes home he goes after our dochound in a bad way we have to squirt him with water in the ears or eyes to make him stop we dont ever hit him first trainer sugested a e collar be thats cruel ANY IDEAS THANKS ps starting to hate him we have had 4 other gsd never any problems like this
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:45 PM   #2 (permalink)
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he's 7 years old, tho I do believe you can teach an old dog new tricks, Jack sounds pretty set in his ways at this point.

If you know he's going to go nutso on the dachsund when your wife comes home, I highly suggest you crate one of them for their safety. Jack can very well kill a dachsund if he put his mind to it.

Sometimes dogs are what they are.

I don't have any solutions, but to get back with a trainer and stick with it
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:53 PM   #3 (permalink)
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You didn't mention whether the trainer worked with just your dog or did he work with you with the dog? Sounds like you need a trainer that will work with you and your wife working the dog. That way you can learn to read him and also crate and rotate with the dachshund is a good idea to protect the little guy. A seven year old dog is trainable but it isn't easy and it takes much determination. I don't believe he is ADD, although I was sure my pup was when I was training (LOL) at first. He is just set in his ways and you aren't doing anything interesting enough to change his mind. I always figured if the dog isn't paying attention then I must be doing something wrong. Vary the type of reward until you find what really grabs his attention. Sometimes its squeaky toys, balls, treats, kind words, each dog is different.

I also wanted to address the squirting water in his eyes and ears. Stop that! You talk a lot about the types of punishment or correction collars but you never mentioned rewards for training. There are two types of training - reward based R+ and R- and correction based P+ and P-. Have you tried a clicker to mark the behaviors you want? How about NILIF?
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Last edited by pyratemom; 12-18-2012 at 07:58 PM. Reason: had to add another sentence
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Old 12-18-2012, 09:29 PM   #4 (permalink)
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thank you for the replies, The first trainer worked us on how to work jack when we were at the trainers he was great BUT when the class was over he would dart for the car to get out of there all training forgotten we would work him at home still no listen.As for rewards he is not food orientated at all could not care less about any treats and as for toys thats all he cares about 24 /7 playing ball any time any where with any one who can throw a ball as for roger the weenier dog he is a toughy BUT the only time jack goes after him is when someone comes home so I dont worry about it to much Im starting to think his name is '' **** it jack '' in the last 40 minutes hes been scolded at least 10 times!! I think theres some hope, but somtimes it is what it is the trainer once said if the dog is the problem the leash is the tool for fixxing the problem, he said cut the loop off and hook him up to the leash while in the house only so we could make physical corrections at any given time (every 5 mins lol) all ideas more than welcome this the first out of 4or 5 gsd that we have had like this other dogs were gotten as pups from same trainer
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Old 12-18-2012, 09:56 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aqua750 View Post
As for rewards he is not food orientated at all could not care less about any treats and as for toys thats all he cares about 24 /7 playing ball any time any where with any one who can throw a ball
There's your answer...carry a ball at all times... when you want something from him, whip out the ball, if he complies, throw the ball! Start simple with stuff he knows, reward him with the ball!
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:17 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
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There's your answer...carry a ball at all times... when you want something from him, whip out the ball, if he complies, throw the ball! Start simple with stuff he knows, reward him with the ball!
Yep. Food treats are generally easier for obedience IMO (as in, easier for the handler to manage), but if he won't take them, a ball is definitely an acceptable reward.

OP, you talk a lot about corrections...have you spent any time teaching him how you want him to behave? It sounds to me like he does well in a structured environment with someone who handles dogs professionally so is very good at using his or her body to help cue the dog (training class), but he's out of control anywhere else. What this says to me is that he is willing to listen, but you are not able to motivate him to do so.

I think you are right to not escalate to the e-collar. I personally don't have anything against them when used correctly, but I doubt that if all your other corrections have had no effect, an e-collar is going to work. They can also cause a lot of harm if they aren't used perfectly, and I think most dog owners do not have the experience to do so.

I would probably try another trainer. I would also leash the dog up to me and basically treat him like a puppy or a new rescue and basically re-teach the dog the rules of the house. Focus on teaching him what he's supposed to do, not what he isn't supposed to do. Correct him if necessary, but your goal should be to manage his life so that he doesn't really have a chance to misbehave.

Remember, to train a dog you have to motivate them. Right now, he's not listening to you because there's no reason to--whatever he's ignoring you to do is a lot more rewarding for him than what you can give him. This is where his toy craziness comes in. Use his toy to reward him for listening. I would take away his toys except for when you're training him, actually.

At this stage, reward him every time he responds to you, or does something you want. I would strongly recommend clicker training for you, since it can be hard to reward instantaneously with a ball. The clicker will mark the exact behavior that you want.

I also agree that right now, you should crate and rotate him and the Dachshund, or at least crate him when your wife comes home and he always goes after the dog. Punishing him like you're doing is clearly ineffective (and depending on why he's going after the dog, it may even be making things worse). You may be able to reintroduce them later, but right now you need to separate him until you reliably get him under control, for the little dog's sake.
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Old 12-19-2012, 08:34 AM   #7 (permalink)
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You have the answer - the ball. You can keep the ball in your pocket and he will know it's there, believe me. I think he needs clear instruction as to what you expect from him. Start back at the beginning and use the ball drive as rewards. A good work out equals a good ball playing session at the end too. Good behavior can be marked by a clicker so he knows exactly what he is being rewarded for. Could be this dog has mad ball drive skills that you haven't even accessed yet.

Scolded 10 times in 40 minutes? You should have him leashed to you so you don't have to scold him. You can stop the wrong behavior right at the second it starts. This must be consistent or you will confuse him as to what you want. Simply an Eh! can stop behavior if you are consistent. Did any of the trainers give you homework? All the trainers I ever worked with gave homework for the week in between sessions.
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Last edited by pyratemom; 12-19-2012 at 08:39 AM. Reason: corrections
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Old 12-19-2012, 08:51 AM   #8 (permalink)
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i think dogs that behave the way yours does isn't attention deficit disorder or retardation. i think most of this bad behaviour developes from a lack of training and socializing disorder that's caused by the owner/owners.[QUOTE=aqua750;2658687]Hello,>>>> the vet thinks he has attention defecet disorder I think he is just RETARDED !
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Old 12-19-2012, 04:52 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Default wont listen

WOW thank you for the help! and there it is the ball that is the key I just never thought of using it as a reward ! I think this may change every thing Im excited to try this what great advise thank you
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