Definition of prey levels

[codmaster]

Originally Posted by x11

"...so to say a sight hound is a good representation of the breed because they chase and kill animals...not sure about that..." that is the entire point of their existence any sight hound that is not like that is not a sight hound ..its a cull.

"...NON-animal chasing, but prey driven activities.."

this thread is doing my head in

Same with a Shepherd who won't herd!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[x11]

not trying to be on yr case or anything, but perhaps the word PREY is a misnomer, to me PREY goes with PREDATOR so a dog with a high motivation to chase, catch and kill critters is a PREY DOG -obvious -acting in PREY DRIVE, wheteher it uses it nose, eyes or both is irrelevant. to say a dog that doesn't want to kill critters but chases a ball is high in prey and a dog that will expire trying to kill a critter but has no interest in a ball lacks prey drive...is a subversion of the word. but hey words have taken on new meanings throughout the entire hisory of language.

my head spun, i'm done on this one........that ryhmes.

Originally Posted by GSDElsa

The point is that ANY dog can decide to go chase animals.....even those who are horribly low drive and lazy. So the point being....a good sight hound won't just chase a real animal, they will be stimulated and put in drive by the act of chasing ANYTHING visually, not just real prey.

So if the lazy lab next door and the sight hound down the street will both chase neighborhood cats....but the lab won't so much as glance at some crazy person running around with a plastic bag on the end of a whip....but the sight hound loses his mind at the same activity....who is low prey drive and who is high?

I realize it doesn't make sense, but I just think too many dogs have that short burst desire to KILL SOMETHING ALIVE! for that to be the sole judge of prey drive. Hopefully I'm making sense to someone!

[GSDElsa]

Well to me there is a difference between want and will. My don't won't because they know they shouldn't, so their biddability, pack drive, and understanding of consequences prevents them from doing this, but not a lack of prey drive....

I'm not arguing that chasing animals is a facet of prey drive. ....but I think that there is another predatory instinct (not drive) that will cause almost any dog to chase an animal....but that drives are so much more complex than simply using chasing an animal as the determining factor in calling a dog "high or "low" drive.

[BlackthornGSD]

There is definitely some complicated variation of "prey" drive that involves willingness to place value on an object that has been a prey target.

That is, you take a stick and throw it--many dogs will chase the stick in the moment it is moving away. Fewer dogs will pick up and have value for the stick once they know it is just a stick. And even fewer will bring the stick back and ask us to re-animate it and make it into a prey target again.

Having high prey drive isn't sufficient, as we're talking about--the husky that will kill any smaller animal is high in natural prey drive. But that doesn't mean that the dog will engage in asking the human to "re-animate" a non-living object to make the game happen again.

Some people call this "ball drive"--and, of course, it's not specific to only spheroids but applies to any object of play that can be made to move like prey. "Ball drive" like this can and does apply to a tug or bite pillow or a sleeve--and if the dog will perform behaviors in order to have the chance to bite this "ball" then we have a useful drive that allows us to motivate and then reward all sorts of things.

To summarize, all ball drive is prey drive but not all prey drive is ball drive.

[Jo Ellen]

Originally Posted by BlackthornGSD

if the dog will perform behaviors in order to have the chance to bite this "ball" then we have a useful drive that allows us to motivate and then reward all sorts of things.

To summarize, all ball drive is prey drive but not all prey drive is ball drive.

Blackthorn, you are talking about my Spirit but what exactly are you saying? Spirit has a useful drive, whatever type of drive it is ... useful for what?

[BlackthornGSD]

Originally Posted by Jo Ellen

Blackthorn, you are talking about my Spirit but what exactly are you saying? Spirit has a useful drive, whatever type of drive it is ... useful for what?

How about any sort of scent detection training--drugs, bombs, search and rescue, etc.

[Jo Ellen]

Originally Posted by BlackthornGSD

How about any sort of scent detection training--drugs, bombs, search and rescue, etc.

Interesting. I have had this nagging feeling for some time now that he could be very successful in tracking.

[x11]

i actually get this, thanx.

Originally Posted by BlackthornGSD

There is definitely some complicated variation of "prey" drive that involves willingness to place value on an object that has been a prey target.

That is, you take a stick and throw it--many dogs will chase the stick in the moment it is moving away. Fewer dogs will pick up and have value for the stick once they know it is just a stick. And even fewer will bring the stick back and ask us to re-animate it and make it into a prey target again.

Having high prey drive isn't sufficient, as we're talking about--the husky that will kill any smaller animal is high in natural prey drive. But that doesn't mean that the dog will engage in asking the human to "re-animate" a non-living object to make the game happen again.

Some people call this "ball drive"--and, of course, it's not specific to only spheroids but applies to any object of play that can be made to move like prey. "Ball drive" like this can and does apply to a tug or bite pillow or a sleeve--and if the dog will perform behaviors in order to have the chance to bite this "ball" then we have a useful drive that allows us to motivate and then reward all sorts of things.

To summarize, all ball drive is prey drive but not all prey drive is ball drive.

[Lilie]

Originally Posted by GSDElsa

I'm not arguing that chasing animals is a facet of prey drive. ....but I think that there is another predatory instinct (not drive) that will cause almost any dog to chase an animal....but that drives are so much more complex than simply using chasing an animal as the determining factor in calling a dog "high or "low" drive.

My GSD will chase, attack and kill a cat. He has no interest in a flirt pole, will only bring the ball back because that is what is expected of him.