A video showing dominance/submission that I made

[wildo]

Originally Posted by hunterisgreat

I can out a hamburger in one dogs mouth in the presence of another dog immediately nearby.

Off topic- It's amazing what some people can train, and what others can't. For example, I've trained a very strong recall. I can recall my dog off just about everything I've tried. But I can't get her to out for the life of me. Outting a hamburger? Major props, sir. Major props!

[Jax08]

I'd love to have Chris's, Lisa's and Cliff's take on this video. What is the difference between dominance and resource guarding?

The video clearly shows Kohl being submissive to Jager but is Jager really being dominant? Or is he resource guarding from Kohl because he views him as a threat to his treat.

What this reminded me of is when Sierra get to close to me and Jax reacts or Jax gets to close to Scott and Sierra reacts. And that I know is resource guarding.

[hunterisgreat]

This is pre-foster, but so you understand the difference between bullying (taking everything) and simply claiming what is rightfully theirs. You'll see mutual respect among all dogs.

Katya didn't feel well, but guarded her bowl for hours. Jäger patiently waits. If he approached, she growled, I allowed it, and he respected that it was hers.

Katya guarding food - YouTube

Katya guarding food - YouTube

And statements on the internet are next to useless, so here is proof we all eat together with no issues.

Dogs eating together - YouTube

Dogs eating together - YouTube

[Jax08]

Originally Posted by hunterisgreat

"you guard it, you lose it" teaches the dog you are a bully and will share nothing.

Agreed!!!!! I found this out quickly with Jax. She escalated her guarding against the other dog though, not me, when I took the toy away because she was guarding it. Taking it away only makes them guard more. Changing their mindset on whether they feel the need to guard is the key.

[Courtney]

Again, I only have one dog but have observed my parents three dogs together. My dad is not dog savvy, never spent time on a computer for anything, his experience is with his own dogs that he has raised over the last 35 + years...some hunting dogs, most companions.

The few times he has stepped in to correct a dog for being snarky with the other actually resulted in a nasty dog fight, him getting stitches in his hand for then trying to break it up (bad move). When he doesn't step in an eye flick, curled lip, etc from the dog to the other offending dog "enough" has stopped the behaviour, no physical contact or fighting dogs. Now I don't want to give the impression his dogs are always in conflict, they for the most part live peacefully together in the house, but every once in a while....

[wildo]

Yeah, but where's the video proof that your dog can out a hamburger???

[hunterisgreat]

Originally Posted by Jax08

I'd love to have Chris's, Lisa's and Cliff's take on this video. What is the difference between dominance and resource guarding?

The video clearly shows Kohl being submissive to Jager but is Jager really being dominant? Or is he resource guarding from Kohl because he views him as a threat to his treat.

What this reminded me of is when Sierra get to close to me and Jax reacts or Jax gets to close to Scott and Sierra reacts. And that I know is resource guarding.

If it were bullying, he would try to take all the treats. See the above video and you can see he doesn't try to take from other dogs when he knows full well it is not his. You can even see a few times when Jager thinks the treat is his (mind you their heads are maybe 12 inches apart) and shows a tooth or two, but when the hand is clearly going to Koal, the posture from Jager stops. I tried to point that out in the video atleast once.

In parts of the video he is being submissive, in parts he is not. Eye contact is a challenge. Koal has only recently begun appropriate social behavior. Initially any other dog moving with any sort of excitement got fully hackles from Koal and fear nipping regardless of why the dog was excited... I could be interacting with one of mine and he'd show inappropriate behavior at them (or even me). He is dramatically better but still shows some confusion as to social behavior, sometimes... such as in this video when he doesn't submit and Jäger moves to a nip correction (the don't even make contact). Most people do not understand what they are watching which is why I tried to comment as much as possible what was happening.

Consider Katya's consistent submissive behavior, and couple that with the video playing in the yard. Clearly she is not fearful of him... they play quite rough together. What you see in her in the video is not fear, but normal natural submission to him. Katya does what Jäger when she interacts similarly with Aska. Aska submits readily to Katya.

[gsdraven]

Originally Posted by KristiM

Personally I won't push a certain hierarchy on my dogs, the dominant dog gets to be the dominant dog.

Originally Posted by PatchonGSD

I do believe that trying to suppress the natural social structure and hierarchy among dogs is detrimental.

Just to be clear... not allowing behavior such as snarling and showing teeth when not threatened does not equal forcing an unnatural heirarchy.

Heirarchy with dogs is fluid. What is important to one dog, may not be important to another. For example, my affection is very important to Raven and Kaiser but less so to Holly so she is not willing to "show dominance" for that resource. Holly and Kaiser are equal in food and toy drive, Raven is lower and so she is not willing to "show dominance" for those resources.

Kaiser is extremely confident in his place and abilities and doesn't show dominance over much and ignores other dogs who try to push him around unless they are an actual threat and even then, he is very fair in his corrections, diffuses any attempts to fight and never uses his teeth to accomplish settling another dog down.

[Jax08]

But the question remains...why does Jager feel challenged? He wouldn't be reacting if he didn't feel he needed to guard HIS treat. Is it because Koal was showing inappropriate behavior prior to this and Jager had to correct him?

I'm not disagreeing on the dominance/submissive. I'm actually not disagreeing about anything. Jager could understand perfectly what is in his food bowl is his and what is in Koal's is not. It's obvious he is only guarding the treats that are coming to him and when Koal gets to close. I'm questioning the motives behind the behavior in this particular situation.

[hunterisgreat]

Originally Posted by Jax08

But the question remains...why does Jager feel challenged? He wouldn't be reacting if he didn't feel he needed to guard HIS treat. Is it because Koal was showing inappropriate behavior prior to this and Jager had to correct him?

I'm not disagreeing on the dominance/submissive. I'm actually not disagreeing about anything. Jager could understand perfectly what is in his food bowl is his and what is in Koal's is not. It's obvious he is only guarding the treats that are coming to him and when Koal gets to close. I'm questioning the motives behind the behavior in this particular situation.

Partly because Koal has a history of not respecting other dogs and so jäger is "extra clear" with him, and partially doesn't fully understand how to communicate submission or "in really not gonna try and ninja that away from you". Notice not one display at Katya. Ill record tonight them eating as close as possible from my hand in the same manner. They have an established mutual respect and so the posturing rarely happens... And it goes both ways with them depending on who is "in the wrong".