A video showing dominance/submission that I made

[msvette2u]

My only thought was...if he was going to fight, he would have when he advanced slightly.
So the OP trusts him not to fight...but then if he didn't whip the other dog's behind, is that
"true" dominance?

Is it just a good example of how fluid dog status actually is?

FTR, when my Dachshunds (yes, I know, another breed entirely) get to the point they are lifting lips and snarling at one another, a fight does break out. Which is why I don't allow it to advance to that point.

[Snickelfritz]

All I can see, is a whole lot of trouble in the future.

[Wild Wolf]

Originally Posted by Snickelfritz

All I can see, is a whole lot of trouble in the future.

This behaviour is what prevents damage being done in fighting. It's the quiet... the lack of social interaction and clear messages that leads to brutal dog fights.

This behaviour establishes rules and rank without bloodshed. These rituals are how canines species survive and don't kill each other into extinction.

[Snickelfritz]

Originally Posted by Wild Wolf

This behaviour is what prevents damage being done in fighting. It's the quiet... the lack of social interaction and clear messages that leads to brutal dog fights.

This behaviour establishes rules and rank without bloodshed. These rituals are how canines species survive and don't kill each other into extinction.

Riiigggghhttt. Whatever you say Wolf. I can see potential for disaster. But what do I know. Never been around a dog, or a pack in my life

Just my opinion. Take it, and if you don't. You can leave it.

[RowdyDogs]

I don't like my dogs growling or snapping at each other, but the thing I haven't seen mentioned in this talk about whether that's acceptable or not (sorry if I missed it) is that punishing warning snarls or growls can actually lead to more aggression. I have a policy of never punishing those warning signs. My only dog fights happen with a dog I took in after he'd bitten a couple of people and was fighting with the family's other dogs "for no reason." They'd punished him for growling, and so now even 6 years later he'll go straight to biting or attacking rather than giving obvious warnings that he's not okay with a situation. I have to watch his body language very carefully to keep the peace.

What I do instead is set very clear standards of behavior for each dog. I supervise meal times and stop the dogs who finish earlier from getting too close to the slower eaters. When we're giving treats, they know they will all get one and they also know that they need to be sitting nicely and totally focused on me--so they're not even paying attention to each other. If one looks like he's going to try to steal another's spot on the couch, I find another place for him to go lay down. Basically, my attitude is, "In the house, I don't care which one of you thinks he's dominant, because I'm the one in charge and I control everything in your life."

I started doing this because at one time I had 7 ACDs between my 3, 2 I was caring for when their owner was deployed overseas and her initial care plans for them fell through suddenly, and 2 fosters...all in a small 2-bedroom house (on a farm at least LOL). They tend to be a breed that is prone to squabbles and fights and being the "dog police" to other canines they think aren't behaving right...unfortunately they all have different ideas of what "right" is! I was constantly having squabbles and fights until I started managing them like that. I agree that we all find what works for us, but that's my 2 cents.

[pets4life]

has anyone seen an alpha female run a pack in such a forgiving manner? they dont seem to warn they just seen to brutally attack whatever they feel is not following their rules rather than smile and warn like jag does. Just a question?

[4TheDawgies]

Originally Posted by Wild Wolf

This behaviour is what prevents damage being done in fighting. It's the quiet... the lack of social interaction and clear messages that leads to brutal dog fights.

This behaviour establishes rules and rank without bloodshed. These rituals are how canines species survive and don't kill each other into extinction.

Couldn't have said it better

[msvette2u]

but the thing I haven't seen mentioned in this talk about whether that's acceptable or not (sorry if I missed it) is that punishing warning snarls or growls can actually lead to more aggression.

I haven't found this to be true, although I've heard others say it is.
All I know is we live with a lot of dogs, sometimes more than others, and if you scold the "thought" of "I'm going to whale this other dog", then it usually is enough to keep things on an even keel.

That is...know your dogs, and watch for potential triggers, and be "HEY that's enough", to calm things down a tad, and things don't get out of hand that way. I don't let them get to the point of snarling, because we maintain a threshold someplace under that point.

[Snickelfritz]

Originally Posted by RowdyDogs

I don't like my dogs growling or snapping at each other, but the thing I haven't seen mentioned in this talk about whether that's acceptable or not (sorry if I missed it) is that punishing warning snarls or growls can actually lead to more aggression. I have a policy of never punishing those warning signs. My only dog fights happen with a dog I took in after he'd bitten a couple of people and was fighting with the family's other dogs "for no reason." They'd punished him for growling, and so now even 6 years later he'll go straight to biting or attacking rather than giving obvious warnings that he's not okay with a situation. I have to watch his body language very carefully to keep the peace.

This makes sense to me.

[RowdyDogs]

I think we're actually on the same page there. I got the vibe from some of these posts that they were letting things escalate until the dog started warning the other, and then the response was scolding the warning dog for growling (I may have misinterpreted some or be misremembering too, it's a long thread and I've read it over several days ). That's what caused the trouble with my bitey dog, when his previous owners basically left him defenseless--they didn't stop the other dog from making him uncomfortable, but they didn't allow him to tell the other dog that either.

I also want to say that I didn't word that well. I don't think it makes a dog more aggressive, it just makes the aggression come with less warning.

I'll definitely scold my dogs when they're escalating to snarling but haven't yet, in the same sense you do. My point was that in my opinion, management should keep it to the point of snarling, but if it does get to that point, just punishing the snarl isn't necessarily the best course of action.