Can you explain this behavior?

[Lilie]

Originally Posted by sheep

The sentence I marked in blue doesn't make sense. Whether it's dominance or not, wouldn't it make more sense to say that the dog is controlling the owner or guest and not allowing the members of his pack to get out?

No, (IMO) it's more like the dog doesn't feel in control of anything. Doesn't have a structured pack. Therefore, takes advantage of a person 'leaving' and sees this as an opportunity to make a bluff of being in control. Or being the leader.

If you think about the mailman. Every day the mailman comes by the home. The dog barks out a warning (from the safety of it's home) to the mailman and he leaves. The mailman doesn't stick around or hang out. So the dog sees it as if the mailman wants to join the household, but the dog has shout out a warning for them to leave. And they comply.

The guest (or owner) joins the group. The dog has no confidence. It doesn't know what is expected of it. It is unsure. When the member leaves, the dog sees this as the opportunity for false bravado. The member continues to leave and so the dog takes it's control to the next level, the bite.

[MaggieRoseLee]

Originally Posted by Lilie

No, (IMO) it's more like the dog doesn't feel in control of anything. Doesn't have a structured pack. Therefore, takes advantage of a person 'leaving' and sees this as an opportunity to make a bluff of being in control. Or being the leader.

That's my read too.

The fix is to give the dog the confidence in itself PLUS it's owners with structure and training and mostly positive based training/exercise/fun. Most of us are good at obedience 'training' based on you will do what I say when I say it OR ELSE. Which for an unconfident dog is setting up a bad situation and not helping it's bond with the family (pack).

First you want joy and happiness and confidence in our dog when they are home or in the world. Once we get that for our dogs then can learn anything and be confident and normal in the process. It's why we go over and over and over about SOCIALIZE your puppy. And it's not just so our puppy is confident in general, it's also that they learn to look to and learn from gaining trust in us in all situations.

[sheep]

Originally Posted by MaggieRoseLee

That's my read too.

The fix is to give the dog the confidence in itself PLUS it's owners with structure and training and mostly positive based training/exercise/fun. Most of us are good at obedience 'training' based on you will do what I say when I say it OR ELSE. Which for an unconfident dog is setting up a bad situation and not helping it's bond with the family (pack).

First you want joy and happiness and confidence in our dog when they are home or in the world. Once we get that for our dogs then can learn anything and be confident and normal in the process. It's why we go over and over and over about SOCIALIZE your puppy. And it's not just so our puppy is confident in general, it's also that they learn to look to and learn from gaining trust in us in all situations.

Hmm in this case, the dog never really had any training. He doesn't even know about "sit". Since I only know him as a guest, I'm not really sure of how his confidence is. He seems calm but isn't the type of friendly tail wagging kind of dog. He would sniff the guest and then walk away, seems not very interested in guests but occasionally checks you. I sense slightly unsureness as he is not familiar with me, but it's very little and he seems not to mind the guests.

[MaggieRoseLee]

Originally Posted by sheep

Hmm in this case, the dog never really had any training. He doesn't even know about "sit". Since I only know him as a guest, I'm not really sure of how his confidence is. He seems calm but isn't the type of friendly tail wagging kind of dog. He would sniff the guest and then walk away, seems not very interested in guests but occasionally checks you. I sense slightly unsureness as he is not familiar with me, but it's very little and he seems not to mind the guests.

If you get a chance to purchase and view the DVD 'Calming Signals' by Turid Rugaas I bet you would then look back at how he was acting in a completely different way.

What we 'stupid humans' notice in dog language is all the loud and obvious stuff. While the fact is there are TONS of quiet/calm/tiny interactions going on from the dog that we miss entirely.

http://www.canis.no/rugaas/

Amazon.com: calming signals dvd

Amazon.com: calming signals dvd

" target="_blank">

">" /> ">

[sheep]

Originally Posted by MaggieRoseLee

If you get a chance to purchase and view the DVD 'Calming Signals' by Turid Rugaas I bet you would then look back at how he was acting in a completely different way.

What we 'stupid humans' notice in dog language is all the loud and obvious stuff. While the fact is there are TONS of quiet/calm/tiny interactions going on from the dog that we miss entirely.

Turid Rugaas - Calming Signals Community


Amazon.com: calming signals dvd

Thanks for the reference but I already have the book. Was lucky enough to find it in a local bookstore aside of all the Cesar Millan books (which is just everywhere, while the interesting books - at least to me -, are so rare to be found!).

[MaggieRoseLee]

The book is good but DVD much better. She does an amazing job (must have had a million hours of footage) to set up the dogs to show the behavior she wants the view to see. Then really explains it so well. Plus the fact, for some reason , many of the dogs used are GSD's so it's super easy to recognize.

For me, the book supplemented and in no way replaced what I saw on the DVD. REally changed the way I view my dogs and other dogs and how they relate. If I ever now say my dogs 'suddenly' reacted/behaved some way. Then I know it wasn't sudden at all, only seemed sudden cause I wasn't paying attention to all the signals that were actually getting tossed around earlier and missed by everyone in the room.

[Lilie]

[QUOTE=MaggieRoseLee;2640672]If you get a chance to purchase and view the DVD 'Calming Signals' by Turid Rugaas I bet you would then look back at how he was acting in a completely different way.

What we 'stupid humans' notice in dog language is all the loud and obvious stuff. While the fact is there are TONS of quiet/calm/tiny interactions going on from the dog that we miss entirely.


This is such a GOOD DVD. It truly helps you understand what is going on in your dog's head.

Something that hit me like a ton of bricks is lip licking. Following a track I'd encourage and praise. He'd lick his lips. I'd (getting excited that he is being positive) would encourage even more. "Good Boy! Good Boy! Whoo Hoo!" *quick lick...quick lick...quick lick* When he located his prize he'd pick it up and eat it and wander off. No big deal. Hmmmmm...must not be encouraging enough. So I stepped up my game. It made it worse. Although he'd work, he wouldn't get excited. All I'd get was *quick lick....quick lick...quick lick* No vocalization, nothing.

Then I saw this:

LIP LICKING
This quick little flick of the tongue is language which often goes unnoticed because it is shadowed by more overt signals. It is yet another way for a dog to convey the same message, for everybody to calm down.


Ahhh.....*head thump*. My dog was telling me that he had this. He didn't need me as a cheer leader. I needed to let him do his job and stay out of his way. All I do now is a casual "good" and watch his reaction. Now, when he gets closer to his prize he begins vocalizing. An entirely different dog. I could have easily ruined this dog. I owe MaggieRoseLee big time for this one!

[sheep]

Hmm now I'm interested in the DVD. The only thing I can't really agree with the book is that it seemed a bit too much emphasis on stress, some signals are not necessarily signaling stress and it depends on the situation and the body language in the overall can help to tell.

Actually, I was already attentive to the body language of dogs intuitively, but this book made me even more aware of the signals and even attempt to use them to communicate. My parents' min pin is often blinking her eyes, and whenever I mimic her, she would seem to communicate with me even further and feel calmer. With my dog, it took some time (he actually bumped me with his muzzle in the first time) but it kind of started working too.