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Old 11-25-2012, 08:29 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Hard dog vs. Soft dog. When did you know?

I never really thought about it before. Rogue is definitely not an overly soft dog. But other than that, it didn't really matter much. I haven't used any corrections except no or eh eh (like nope try again) when training. But today I was outside with her on a long line and my daughter was playing. She has a bad habit of running after or up to my daughter and biting her, thus the long line. She went to do it again but this time I walked up to her and grabbed the long line to walk her back to where I was sitting. I grabbed the leash just as she was going to jump at my daughter and said no. She hit the end of the leash pretty hard, giving herself a correction. Nothing I meant to do, I was just going to walk her back to me and have her lay down next to my chair. Anyways after the "correction" she went from a 6 ish in excitement to a 10. turned around and jumped and latched onto my bicep giving me the worst bite she has ever given me. It bled and instantly bruised. Not aggression, she's a baby. but it was excitement. The correction, instead of making her stop actually amped up her excitement level. Most dogs I have had in the past, and have worked with have been relatively soft dogs. The only dog I have ever had that reminds me of Rogue was my childhood shepherd mix. Anyways, is this at all a sign of hardness in a dog? Or was this just frustration because she couldn't get to my daughter so she turned to me? Or both? lol

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Old 11-25-2012, 08:46 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Just curious...
What is the age of your dog? And, what did you do after she bit you?

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Old 11-25-2012, 08:53 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Capone22 View Post
I never really thought about it before. Rogue is definitely not an overly soft dog. But other than that, it didn't really matter much. I haven't used any corrections except no or eh eh (like nope try again) when training. But today I was outside with her on a long line and my daughter was playing. She has a bad habit of running after or up to my daughter and biting her, thus the long line. She went to do it again but this time I walked up to her and grabbed the long line to walk her back to where I was sitting. I grabbed the leash just as she was going to jump at my daughter and said no. She hit the end of the leash pretty hard, giving herself a correction. Nothing I meant to do, I was just going to walk her back to me and have her lay down next to my chair. Anyways after the "correction" she went from a 6 ish in excitement to a 10. turned around and jumped and latched onto my bicep giving me the worst bite she has ever given me. It bled and instantly bruised. Not aggression, she's a baby. but it was excitement. The correction, instead of making her stop actually amped up her excitement level. Most dogs I have had in the past, and have worked with have been relatively soft dogs. The only dog I have ever had that reminds me of Rogue was my childhood shepherd mix. Anyways, is this at all a sign of hardness in a dog? Or was this just frustration because she couldn't get to my daughter so she turned to me? Or both? lol
Big question is the age of your dog.

But a BIGGER question is this - Do you realize if a dog blows off your "correction"; it WASN'T a correction! Just at best a suggestion that the dog has an option of ignoring if they choose. (Yours did!)

Why in the world would you let your dog get away with biting your daughter (how old is she?) repeatedly?
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Old 11-25-2012, 09:18 PM   #4 (permalink)
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She is 5 months old this week.

She's not allowed to bite my daughter repeatedly. It happened once while hiking and I've made sure it hasn't happened since. But she tries to chase and bite her if we are hiking or playing outside so I keep her on a long line so she can't. And redirect her to games of tug with me or fetch or have her chew a bone next to my chair outside.

I didn't do anything when she bit me initially. We are doing French ring and I was told not to have any negative associations with biting. Michael ellis talked about this also while i was at his training course. If you have a working dog for bite work who accidentally nails you and you understandably yell out because it hurts, it can cause a negative association. Although this wasn't accidental i still went about it the same way. Right now it's all redirection. But I did make her sit and then put her in her crate after so she could calm down a bit. And so I could also because dang it hurt!

Also, I wasn't trying to give a physical correction. My intention was to say no and walk her back to her bone and my chair. She jumped and self corrected when hitting the leash. And she was just wearing a flat collar.


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Old 11-25-2012, 09:20 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Excuse typos. I'm typing on my phone.


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Old 11-25-2012, 09:26 PM   #6 (permalink)
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My guess (just a guess since I didn't see it) is that your dog doesn't really know what a correction is, as you have never really used them. I have found this with both of my boys when they were puppies, they didn't respond to the first few corrections they got because they really had no idea what they were. One of my dogs turned out to be very hard and one is middle of the road (maybe a little on the soft side.) I would bet that biting you was just frustration and redirection. At this stage I would personally ignore it, but that is just me. I'm sure others will have opinions on that behaviour.


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Old 11-25-2012, 09:27 PM   #7 (permalink)
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shes still young you dont know what she will turn out to be. The older my dog gets the harder she gets. Shes VERY decoy hard but not so hard with me like my older male was he could take way to much of a correction.. My old male was very handler hard but he was a ***** when it came to a decoy he would shut down and run away.


My bitch is very decoy hard and with me shes medium. So shes not handler hard or soft. I HATE to have a handler hard dog that is just crappy. But i love to have a dog that is hard on others.

yeah i have been bitten in the past by gsd pup which drew blood in play and hurt bad i would not take it serious right now either. Just keep redirecting and see if you can put your dog in some kind of sport or something where she can use all that.

Last edited by pets4life; 11-25-2012 at 09:34 PM.
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Old 11-25-2012, 09:30 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Our Jaeger is about five months old and is too mouthy at times, but he is definitely a softy. A correction, for him, needs to be no more than a loud "Ouch" or a "No no!" He immediately goes into ears down, big-eyes apology mode and either goes to get a toy, lies down on my feet, or licks my hand a lot.

I picked Jaeger out of his litter after watching them all play with both each other and with a person for quite awhile. I knew I wanted a dog that wasn't timid but that would err on the side of overthinking rather than impulsiveness. And I wanted a listener. An aggressive dog wouldn't work in our house. So far he has been perfect for us. It sounds like you wanted a somewhat aggressive dog, so I hope folks who have more experience with that will give you advice.
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Old 11-25-2012, 09:33 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Ah ok. That's what I was wondering. Is it something that typically shows in young puppies or once they mature? But makes sense that it was just redirected frustration and not a sign of hardness at this point.

She's such a crazy girl. But we love her. and her prey drive is great for FR. Not so much for crazy five year olds. :/ It's just management. Aside from the one time she chased and got her hiking, I've done very well keeping her leashed or separate unless she's calm and tired.


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Old 11-25-2012, 09:38 PM   #10 (permalink)
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take her to a club and have her looked at they will know where she stands as a puppy but yeah usually you can really tell when they are older but if you want to do FR with her take her to a club

FOr fr you dont need a handler hard dog but you need a dog that has hardness in them I hope that makes sense


good dogs being soft to their owners does not seem to transfer into protection or on the field in sport training, ALso from what ive seen females seem to be less handler hard than males. But the good ones sure know how to fight a decoy lol JMHO which is what i love about them.

Last edited by pets4life; 11-25-2012 at 09:44 PM.
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