Has anyone watched leerburg's Pack Structure DVD? - German Shepherd Dog Forums

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Old 11-08-2012, 08:39 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Has anyone watched leerburg's Pack Structure DVD?

Here's the one for puppies Leerburg | Establishing Pack Structure with Your Puppy DVD released Summer 2012 so basically the most recent.

Leerburg | Establishing Pack Structure with the Family Pet DVD This one is 2007. The 10 minute trailer is intriguing to watch but he doesn't give away any techniques or philosophies, just general observations.

My experience with leerburg's DVDs particularly Ed F's materials is that they are widely inconsistent. I had his Basic Dog Obedience DVD and he talks about pinching the dog's toes for addressing jumping, or using a bark collar to address barking. But then in his 8 weeks to 8 months puppy DVD which came out a year later, he says "I absolutely do not use bark collars". I understand he's open about his changes in philosophies and doesn't hide the fact that he has made some changes and evolved his dog training, especially with Michael Ellis and marker training.

I'm curious to know if anyone watched his Pack Structure for Family Pet DVD and if they have any reviews of it.
Also would like to hear about the new puppy one. $35-50 is a lot for one DVD..
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Old 11-09-2012, 08:26 PM   #2 (permalink)
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seen them all excpet the new one you mentioned. overall they are good sound practical advice especially for the first time pet owner with no idea. anyone who followed the system to the letter would unlikely create many problems for themselves - but some people will always find a way to scew things up because some people should not be allowed to own any pet other than a pet rock.

i found much stuff helpful but now that i have gained more experience i personally don't follow the system - Ed himself does not follow his own systems indefinately as you have already mentioned but he doesn't lie or backtrack he just says he has learned more and changed which is cool. it only gets confusing for people that are not aware of the evolution and see one bit that says this and another bit that contradicts it and they miss the history in between.

personally i will never use the umbilicle chord system to raise a dog - personally i find it overbearing and a bit bullish on a pup. but i think ceaser is just a straight up bully as well, if some newb pulled that **** on the very rare 1/1000 000 dog that is truly dominant i think the system would fly apart on them, a newb being a newb would not see it coming tho.

overall i bought (as in paid and not pirated) all the stuff and got some good practical advice from it - listen to and watch every person that has been doing stuff for that long in any field, they must know something worth knowing, in the end use your own brain in what you apply and do with your dogs.

my obedience methods certainly don't chime with Ed's personal vids but are totally in line with his latest front man ME.

hope that helps

Last edited by x11; 11-09-2012 at 08:32 PM.
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Old 11-10-2012, 12:12 AM   #3 (permalink)
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****, you paid and bought all those DVDs? Must have cost a new hundred good ones.

I like Michael Ellis' stuff, I have his Training Dogs with Food and that's about it. The problem is, because of the way it's produced and cut by Ed as excerpts of ME's actual training sessions and classes, it's not easy to know what or who he is targeting. A lot if not most of his training is targeted as sport dogs or personal protection and DVDs such as his bite work for puppies DVD isn't going to be of much help for a regular pet owner. In fact, if someone who didn't plan on raising a working or sporting dog followed those concepts, they would have a bigger problem than if they did not.

His training with food is great and he talks about engagement, building and managing drive, cues, etc. but there is little background information on who it is appropriate for. Largely because it is Ed F. who has taken footage of ME's classes and training and compiled them into neat sections. Thru my own experience I learned that there are some things I shouldn't use from that DVD on my 11 week old puppy. Not saying it's a bad DVD, there's a lot of universal knowledge but some things lack background information. Like teaching a dog drive and engagement that lacks attention and self control like a puppy should come way later once the puppy matured a bit but the DVD doesn't really talk about that stuff. It just goes into HOW to build drive, not covering the scope of why or for who and during what situations.

He has DVDs on heeling, recall, retrieving, etc. but ME doesn't have any DVDs or information on just good old, everyday pet owners situations like a puppy behavioral DVD or the DVD in question, "Pack structure" by Ed F. I'm less interested in Ed's materials and I don't trust his experience as much as I do Michael Ellis' but no where does it say which parts of Ed F's DVDs, philosophies and training methods are endorsed by ME. Kind of a crap shoot.

Personally I think the umbilical cord method is fine and that's what I use and I think it develops a very strong bond with the dog but it's all about how you interact with the dog at the end of the day. Hanging out 24/7 with a bad owner is going to suck for the dog and being attached to your favorite friend is going to rock.

Have you seen his training dogs with food and his tug DVD?
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Old 11-10-2012, 09:25 PM   #4 (permalink)
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yes yr right most of his stuff is about drive building - he is a competitor that works with some of the best dogs and trainers there are - in his own words he says that not all his excercises will be required by the average pet owner but he would like to see everyone strive to be a better trainereven if they have no intentions of competing, seems fair enough.

i don't like the umblicle method and i don't see how people that work for a living can even do it. you can't force another living thing to like you, you can only force it to accept that it has no choice other than to resign to its fate....what a suckful theory of dog training is that.

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Old 11-11-2012, 02:11 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x11 View Post
yes yr right most of his stuff is about drive building - he is a competitor that works with some of the best dogs and trainers there are - in his own words he says that not all his excercises will be required by the average pet owner but he would like to see everyone strive to be a better trainereven if they have no intentions of competing, seems fair enough.

i don't like the umblicle method and i don't see how people that work for a living can even do it. you can't force another living thing to like you, you can only force it to accept that it has no choice other than to resign to its fate....what a suckful theory of dog training is that.
so you're open to giving a young puppy or a rescue free roam of the house right away?
I don't know if we're defining the training method the same but I don't see how it's suckful. It just basically says crate your dog when you're not around and have the puppy on the leash so there's no accidents or chewing, eating, etc. around the house. Doesn't mean you force anything on the puppy. I mean by that logic why even have leashes on walks, why do we have crates or dog kennels, why not just let dogs be wild and not be domesticated? The "umbilical" method (if we're on the same page) is temporary for a few weeks (or more for a young young puppy) to let the dog know its boundaries.
But to each its own.
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Old 11-11-2012, 08:12 PM   #6 (permalink)
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you obviously have not sen Ed's version of the method which is logical hence posting about has anyone seen his videos. it is a bit/lot more extreme than your take on it.

to answer yr question my current dogs are in a large kennel/run during the day, big as some peoples back yards. they only come in the house when i am home and under supervision and certain house rules, none of which require a leash.

in relative terms most here would think my current dogs are half wild, my previous dogs most here would swear they were fully wild.

here is how my pup was raised, i call it the X11 method?;


the only reason he has a collar at all is so random hunters don't mistake him for a wild pup and shoot him.

he can run as far as he wants in any direction i would never be able to stop or find him. all sorts of wild critters could also kill him.

here is same dog a bit older and more confident;


here is same pup crittering on his own, again collar just for ID;



here is a more recent clip doing obed in the forest;


here is trying to hold a camera while doing two dog obed;


hope i got them in order. so basically i don't feel the need to listen to anyone else's theories on raising a puppy. i do listen tho to specific training excercise stuff. when anyone anywhere can show me more independent and under controll dogs in the environment and around the home i will listen to yr theory.
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