protective or fear??

[kennajo]

Please help me understand this scenerio but please be nice I live close to a state park that has miles of hiking/biking/equestrian trails. My dogs and I and my nephew love to go get lost out there often. I usually try to go during the week when there is less activity and I can let my dogs off leash so they can sniff and pee on everything will I walk. We (my nephew and I) were taking a rest and I had the dogs in a down right in front of me when my 1 yr old GSD took off barking ,hackles and lunging on all fours at a cyclist that neither of the people heard. I know he should of been leashed and will be in the future. Rocky never attempted to bite the man and he came to me when I called. The man was really nice about it but he did place his bike between him and Rocky. My question is Rocky still reacting fearfully or was that a protective stance? We do have very good recall ,he has never challenged that. I did call him off a flock of birds the dogs flushed from cover right before this happened. It does make me sad that I will have to leash them from now on though ,but it is for their safety as well as others. Thank you for your thoughts.

[Castlemaid]

That sounds like fear to me. He is still a puppy, and they can still go through weird fear stages at that age. Protectiveness comes from a place of inner confidence and strenght, and not one of fake bravado (wich is what most fear reactions are).

Signs of fear:
- Hackled to make himself look bigger and more intimidating
- Lunged and ran towards something that is familiar and a common sight in familiar area. He wanted to scare the cyclist off, because it scared him!
- the cyclist was not threatening you nor the dogs, just going on his own business. Would have been different if the cyclist was making eyecontact with you, yelling and gesticulating, or advancing on you straight on, slow and deliberate, with a hard, threatening look. (I bet he wasn't doing any of these things).


Signs of protectiveness:
- If something was amiss, he would have perked up and watched intently with calm confident.
- no hackles.
- May have stood up and stood by you, still being calm and focused on the threat, sizing up the cyclist, trying to decide if he was in fact, a threat or not.
- He would have first warned the threat off by a low growl. Only fair to give someone a warning first.
- Would have continued to watch the threat retreat, still calm and confident in his own ability to deal with whatever may come his way.

True protectiveness comes with mental maturity, which for GSDs is around 18 to 24 months, sometimes up to three years for some lines.

[kennajo]

That is what I thought too....still fear reacting. It's amazing how quiet those bikes are. Suggestions on how to handle next time? Get his focus on me? Ask him for a down??

[Good_Karma]

Well, Rocky is almost a year old. I don't know much about the protective instincts in dogs, I myself have a fear-reactive dog. Had Rocky seen a cyclist before? If the cyclist was a new sight to him, and if he came upon you suddenly, I suspect Rocky's reaction was fear based. That's great that Rocky came back to you when you called though. Did you apologize to the cyclist? I bet he was quite startled by the incident!!

[kennajo]

Oh yeah I apologized profusly I was in the wrong for not having him leashed and I know it could have ended badly. He had seen cyclist many times. He just startled sall of us....so quiet

[Falkosmom]

Originally Posted by kennajo

We (my nephew and I) were taking a rest and I had the dogs in a down right in front of me when my 1 yr old GSD took off barking ,hackles and lunging on all fours at a cyclist that neither of the people heard.

No disrespect intended, but you do not get to rest when you have a dog off leash. You are "on", vigilant and alert and you should be constantly visually searching the area. Negligence in this aspect will cause the trail you go on to enact leash laws or strictly enforce any that may be in place, or get dogs banned all together, and that is if nobody gets harmed.

Sorry, but I am just a huge fan of off leash exercise and socialization for dogs, and the slightest negligence of a dog owner can ruin so much for themselves and others. Dog owners have just lost too many privileges already in reference to where they may go off leash.

[ILGHAUS]

I know he should of been leashed and will be in the future. ... for their safety as well as others.

Oh yeah I apologized profusly I was in the wrong for not having him leashed and I know it could have ended badly.

OP already acknowledged that they were wrong so no reason to continue on that topic.

[Castlemaid]

You are on the right track about how to handle such a situation in the future. Whatever you do, don't make a big deal out of it, and don't praise for a fear reaction (as in: "That's okay, sweet'ums, Mommy will keep you safe from the scary bicyclist")> It rewards them with positive attention for acting scared. Not saying that you are doing this, but just giving out suggestions in general. But be aware of what you say and how you act, because I've seen handlers in obedience classes with fear reactive dogs, who got upset at me when I pointed out that they were rewarding their dog's fear reaction by coddling them (I was an assistant instructor). And immediately, bent down to pet their dog that was growling and backing away from another dog, telling the dog that it was okay. (Yes, petting your dog and talking baby talk is rewarding your dog with positive attention for acting afraid).

So there are a few ways to deal with this: ignore the behaviour (obviously, don't ignore it to the point that he is running and biting), laugh it off (act like the cyclist is the funnest and most amuzing thing you have ever seen, get Rocky to join you in your fun!), and distract to treats and toys and play, reward for him looking at you, responding to you.

[LoveEcho]

I'm curious-- The instructor of our puppy class talked about "fear stages" at different points in puppy-hood (4 months, 10 months, etc for example). I've noticed that right around these times, Echo became very fear reactive... at 4 months, there was a random street he would NOT walk down--nothing had ever happened to him that I knew of, and then one day it was fine. For like two weeks at 10 months old, he'd go ballistic at things with pseudo-human shapes (scare crow, a giant wooden teddy bear sign), or something startling (like a cyclist). Is this a common phenomenon?

Anyways, Echo has gotten much better about being fear reactive (just for reference, he's 16 months), and I found that trying to re-create the situations where he reacted and re-directing with obedience commands and a high-value toy or treat worked wonders. When we're out at parks where there are cyclists, I'll still bring a squeaky toy... if he starts to seem overwhelmed, we take a break from whatever we're doing to do some "fun" obedience.

[Good_Karma]

Originally Posted by kennajo

Oh yeah I apologized profusly I was in the wrong for not having him leashed and I know it could have ended badly. He had seen cyclist many times. He just startled sall of us....so quiet

Originally Posted by ILGHAUS

OP already acknowledged that they were wrong so no reason to continue on that topic.

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound like I was being critical of you! I just have been the one on the bike being chased by the dog a few times and it's very scary!! I should have assumed that you did apologize from your first post when you said he was fine with it. Please accept my apology.