Some help/advice please for my nervous dog...

Essleyjane · 11-21-2011, 04:20 AM

Hello everyone,
This may be a long one, so bear with me if you can!

We have Fry, an 18 month old GSD/Belgian Shepherd mix. We've had him since he was a pup at 5 weeks old. He's such a happy dog, always wagging his tail, loving towards us and plays with our other dog, Leela (a 21month terrier), who we had first.

Trouble is, Fry is petrified of other people.

Let me start from the start. We live in Borneo, rural Borneo at that. Malaysia is NOT dog friendly. The law states you may not take your dog into any public place. There are hundreds of stray dogs on the street, literally right outside our (secured) garden.

So.. when we first got Leela and Fry as puppies, there was nowhere we could take them for walks because of all the strays, and there are no local parks. We are very isolated here, and rarely get visitors to the house. Both Fry and Leela therefore missed out on socialisation as there was literally nowhere we could take them, and no one to come play with them, other than us. In April this year, we discovered that we would be allowed to walk the dogs at the local sports ground, around the running track. Occasionally, if there is sports being played, we do a small loop of some footpaths where there are less strays.

We walk the dogs twice a day, and since April there has been minor improvement in Fry (Leela is not as bad) but some days I feel like all hope is lost.

We've got him an anxiety wrap to try and help - which I think does, a little. He is very nervous about passing people on the footpath, sometimes he would try and bolt into the road. He's a little better now, though. But he HATES being outside the house. He's so on edge, even when there are very few people around and they are far away from him. I try getting him to sit to give him a treat - he will sit but just NOT focus on me, he darts his head about checking what's going on all around him. I've tried chicken pieces, sausages, all the yummy stuff - but he won't take them. We sit down after the walk for 30 mins or so, in the hope that he can just watch the joggers and see that they are ok - sometimes then he will take the treats, sometimes not. Once he's back in the car, he will gobble all I'll offer. Our other dog does not display any of this nervousness, though she doesn't like strangers coming too close. I hoped that Fry would see that Leela is not bothered and follow her cue, but this doesn't seem to be the case. Even before we've got out of the car, just when we've parked up, he will start to shake. He does the whole walk with his tail down.

If we are walking and a group of people walks towards us, sometimes he will wee himself. On occasion, if we stop to talk to a group of people, he will defecate. This has only happened once or twice.
I don't fuss over him if he's scared, I just let him get on with it. I have a halti harness to have better control over him while we walk (sometimes he tries to bolt and yanks hard) and he has a tendancy to try and walk ahead of me a little (but knows I am alpha - I think he is walking fast to try and get back to the car quicker, or past any people that may be around) so I try to hold him on a short leash in line with me so he can't get ahead. But I don't want this to translate to him that I'm holding him close because there's something to be afraid of.

There's a river just down the road from us, and sometimes we take the dogs there for a splash. There are no people there (or very rarely). You should see the change in Fry! Boldness, tail up, he LOVES it!

It warms my heart to see the change in him. So he's not afraid of that place.

In 11 weeks, we are moving from Borneo back to England. We are taking the dogs with us. We will be living with two friends, who also have a friendly little dog. Do you think this will help Fry, living with two lovely strangers? What should I do to socialise him once we're home - introduce him to as many of our friends as possible? Is it too late for him? We had family visit in April this year, and he eventually took treats from the family members. This is a good sign? Perhaps he just needs time to develop trust?

Any help/advice you can offer will be greatly appreciated - I really really want to help Fry, I will do everything I can, but sometimes it seems like a insurmountable task

I understand that there's probably not much we can do whilst we're still in Malaysia, but I want to make sure I get off to the best possible start once we arrive back in England - I'm a bit worried that Fry loves his 'safe houe' (ie our home) here too much and the move to somewhere new will freak him out.

Sorry for the ramble.... I hope you managed to stay with me!

Sarah & Fry

kiya · 11-21-2011, 08:36 AM

Hello. There is a great yahoo group that you can check out shy-k9s : shy-k9s It takes a lot of time working on issues. I have 2 older dogs that weren't well socialized. I found a lot of good information here and the yahoo group. There is also B.A.T. behavioral adjustment training which really helped me http://functionalrewards.com/ Good luck.

carmspack · 11-21-2011, 08:50 AM

hi Sarah . It sounds like going out into public is a nightmare to your dog. To defecate when approached by a group of people shows the extent of the fear which is extreme . His heart must be racing .
I think with something so profound an option would be to accept the dog with the social handicap that he has and provide a world that suits him , and / or once you are back in England , if the pet-passport requirements are something that he can cope with , to get a good physical exam and determine whether there is some form of medication that will help him relax .
best wishes
Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs

mebully21 · 11-22-2011, 04:29 PM

you can buy the book on amazon.com "help for your fearful dog" by Nicole Wilde,its a great book to help owners with fearful dogs manage their fears step by step

**MaggieRoseLee** · 11-22-2011, 10:12 PM

Not sure how available they are, but the DVD 'Calming Signals' by Turid Rugass should help.

Turid Rugaas Calming Signals DVD - YouTube

And a great behavioral book is The Dog Listener by Jan Fennell, she's even from the UK so you may be able to meet with her and get specific help!

dog behaviour, dog obedience, dog trainers, puppy training, dog rescue assistance, canine behaviour, canine obedience by Jan Fennell the Dog Listener Amichien Bonding

dog behaviourist dog training dog trainer

BowWowMeow · 11-22-2011, 10:56 PM

Some good suggestions above, especially joining the ShyK9s group.

I also wanted to offer some hope for you. I adopted Basu at 4.5 years old and was terrified of people and had spent most of his life in a cage. It took a long time and patience and a lot of learning on my part but he improved so much so that when we were out of the house he was like a normal dog. In the house was a different story as he was fear aggressive but he was able to listen and take treats and knew the routine.

So, change is possible...it just takes time and work.

Essleyjane · 11-23-2011, 05:44 AM

Thanks everyone for the replies - it's great to know that there is still hope!
I will definitely look into all the book suggestions, I'm willing to read/watch anything if it might help.
I know it will take a long time... and I'm prepared for that - I just want to help him. He's not scared of inanimate objects like some nervous dogs seem to be so hopefully that might cut down my work a little! I'm hoping that once we are back home I can gradually expose him to friendly situations and build his confidence, show him that the world really isn't the scary place he thinks it is.

Thanks for all the tips :-)

debbiebrown · 11-25-2011, 01:05 PM

i honestly think if its at all possible is for you to get professional help with your dog......there could be alot of things going on, but bottome line is a dog that is fearful and nervous takes a whole different approach in training. never forcing things on them, a very slow conditioning program that starts from very small encounters and progressing if the dog shows improvement. by getting a professional person involved they will teach you how to handle situations and keep the dog as relaxed as possible. i'll be honest, very rarely do dogs like this improve without some professional guidence and or extreme determination on the owners part to seek ways to help properly.........it will be alot of work and you will have to control all situations in the dogs every day life..........they can improve if your willing to put the time in........best of luck, its not an easy thing to deal with, but hoping you can work with it.........

11-21-2011, 04:20 AM	#1 (permalink)
Essleyjane New Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Borneo Posts: 2	Some help/advice please for my nervous dog... Hello everyone, This may be a long one, so bear with me if you can! We have Fry, an 18 month old GSD/Belgian Shepherd mix. We've had him since he was a pup at 5 weeks old. He's such a happy dog, always wagging his tail, loving towards us and plays with our other dog, Leela (a 21month terrier), who we had first. Trouble is, Fry is petrified of other people. Let me start from the start. We live in Borneo, rural Borneo at that. Malaysia is NOT dog friendly. The law states you may not take your dog into any public place. There are hundreds of stray dogs on the street, literally right outside our (secured) garden. So.. when we first got Leela and Fry as puppies, there was nowhere we could take them for walks because of all the strays, and there are no local parks. We are very isolated here, and rarely get visitors to the house. Both Fry and Leela therefore missed out on socialisation as there was literally nowhere we could take them, and no one to come play with them, other than us. In April this year, we discovered that we would be allowed to walk the dogs at the local sports ground, around the running track. Occasionally, if there is sports being played, we do a small loop of some footpaths where there are less strays. We walk the dogs twice a day, and since April there has been minor improvement in Fry (Leela is not as bad) but some days I feel like all hope is lost. We've got him an anxiety wrap to try and help - which I think does, a little. He is very nervous about passing people on the footpath, sometimes he would try and bolt into the road. He's a little better now, though. But he HATES being outside the house. He's so on edge, even when there are very few people around and they are far away from him. I try getting him to sit to give him a treat - he will sit but just NOT focus on me, he darts his head about checking what's going on all around him. I've tried chicken pieces, sausages, all the yummy stuff - but he won't take them. We sit down after the walk for 30 mins or so, in the hope that he can just watch the joggers and see that they are ok - sometimes then he will take the treats, sometimes not. Once he's back in the car, he will gobble all I'll offer. Our other dog does not display any of this nervousness, though she doesn't like strangers coming too close. I hoped that Fry would see that Leela is not bothered and follow her cue, but this doesn't seem to be the case. Even before we've got out of the car, just when we've parked up, he will start to shake. He does the whole walk with his tail down. If we are walking and a group of people walks towards us, sometimes he will wee himself. On occasion, if we stop to talk to a group of people, he will defecate. This has only happened once or twice. I don't fuss over him if he's scared, I just let him get on with it. I have a halti harness to have better control over him while we walk (sometimes he tries to bolt and yanks hard) and he has a tendancy to try and walk ahead of me a little (but knows I am alpha - I think he is walking fast to try and get back to the car quicker, or past any people that may be around) so I try to hold him on a short leash in line with me so he can't get ahead. But I don't want this to translate to him that I'm holding him close because there's something to be afraid of. There's a river just down the road from us, and sometimes we take the dogs there for a splash. There are no people there (or very rarely). You should see the change in Fry! Boldness, tail up, he LOVES it! It warms my heart to see the change in him. So he's not afraid of that place. In 11 weeks, we are moving from Borneo back to England. We are taking the dogs with us. We will be living with two friends, who also have a friendly little dog. Do you think this will help Fry, living with two lovely strangers? What should I do to socialise him once we're home - introduce him to as many of our friends as possible? Is it too late for him? We had family visit in April this year, and he eventually took treats from the family members. This is a good sign? Perhaps he just needs time to develop trust? Any help/advice you can offer will be greatly appreciated - I really really want to help Fry, I will do everything I can, but sometimes it seems like a insurmountable task I understand that there's probably not much we can do whilst we're still in Malaysia, but I want to make sure I get off to the best possible start once we arrive back in England - I'm a bit worried that Fry loves his 'safe houe' (ie our home) here too much and the move to somewhere new will freak him out. Sorry for the ramble.... I hope you managed to stay with me! Sarah & Fry

11-21-2011, 08:36 AM	#2 (permalink)
kiya Elite Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Long Island Posts: 1,913	Hello. There is a great yahoo group that you can check out shy-k9s : shy-k9s It takes a lot of time working on issues. I have 2 older dogs that weren't well socialized. I found a lot of good information here and the yahoo group. There is also B.A.T. behavioral adjustment training which really helped me http://functionalrewards.com/ Good luck. __________________ Carolyn Apache - Shiloh Shepherd 12/15/02 Kiya - Shiloh Shepherd 5/15/04 Lakota - WGSD 1/13/10 Last edited by kiya; 11-21-2011 at 08:37 AM. Reason: fixed link

11-22-2011, 04:29 PM	#4 (permalink)
mebully21 Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Northern NJ Posts: 161	you can buy the book on amazon.com "help for your fearful dog" by Nicole Wilde,its a great book to help owners with fearful dogs manage their fears step by step __________________ Maryellen CGC Evaluator Rufus CGC,ATTS,TherapyDog http://wallacethepitbull.blip.tv/file/147911/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYdlh8_p8xQ

11-22-2011, 10:56 PM	#6 (permalink)
BowWowMeow Crowned Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 14,797	Some good suggestions above, especially joining the ShyK9s group. I also wanted to offer some hope for you. I adopted Basu at 4.5 years old and was terrified of people and had spent most of his life in a cage. It took a long time and patience and a lot of learning on my part but he improved so much so that when we were out of the house he was like a normal dog. In the house was a different story as he was fear aggressive but he was able to listen and take treats and knew the routine. So, change is possible...it just takes time and work. __________________ Ruth & the 4 Legged Rescue Gang Rafi the malaroo http://www.dogster.com/dogs/693238 Gio & Varda, the krazy kittens ....In my heart: Cleo Kitty Chama Kai Basu Massie

11-25-2011, 01:05 PM	#8 (permalink)
debbiebrown Crowned Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: maine Posts: 7,599	i honestly think if its at all possible is for you to get professional help with your dog......there could be alot of things going on, but bottome line is a dog that is fearful and nervous takes a whole different approach in training. never forcing things on them, a very slow conditioning program that starts from very small encounters and progressing if the dog shows improvement. by getting a professional person involved they will teach you how to handle situations and keep the dog as relaxed as possible. i'll be honest, very rarely do dogs like this improve without some professional guidence and or extreme determination on the owners part to seek ways to help properly.........it will be alot of work and you will have to control all situations in the dogs every day life..........they can improve if your willing to put the time in........best of luck, its not an easy thing to deal with, but hoping you can work with it......... __________________ url

11-21-2011, 08:50 AM	#3 (permalink)
carmspack Knighted Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: ontario - Posts: 3,325	hi Sarah . It sounds like going out into public is a nightmare to your dog. To defecate when approached by a group of people shows the extent of the fear which is extreme . His heart must be racing . I think with something so profound an option would be to accept the dog with the social handicap that he has and provide a world that suits him , and / or once you are back in England , if the pet-passport requirements are something that he can cope with , to get a good physical exam and determine whether there is some form of medication that will help him relax . best wishes Carmen Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs

11-23-2011, 05:44 AM	#7 (permalink)
Essleyjane New Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Borneo Posts: 2	Thanks everyone for the replies - it's great to know that there is still hope! I will definitely look into all the book suggestions, I'm willing to read/watch anything if it might help. I know it will take a long time... and I'm prepared for that - I just want to help him. He's not scared of inanimate objects like some nervous dogs seem to be so hopefully that might cut down my work a little! I'm hoping that once we are back home I can gradually expose him to friendly situations and build his confidence, show him that the world really isn't the scary place he thinks it is. Thanks for all the tips :-)

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