Fear and aggression...all on the same walk??

[Goose]

Goose is both fearful and aggressive all on the same walk. Here's two examples. (both ON leash) 1.5 male, intact. My reaction in correcting him are the same. Stay calm, stay dominate/confident and correct with the prong collar until he redirects and goes from a "10" (lunging) to "0" (calm and submissive)

Small dogs - Most bark at him and he gets aggressive and will bark back/lunge at them. If they are calm, then he usually is too. He just get's very dominate around them it seems. He’s too aggressive with small dogs, almost as he wants to play with them but he’s too rough. Mostly putting his head over their head, pawing at them, chasing them. I am not sure if it’s just his “drive or prey drive” since they are small. He loves to focus on them and is too aggressive with small dogs. On a side note, he's also very rough with small kids. He focuses on them like small dogs sometimes. Kids ages 3-7. The bigger they are the more he'll not focus on them. (I no longer take him to dog beaches to socialize due to all of the above.)

Large dogs - With large, confident dogs, he’s afraid. Even if a large dog casually trots his way to investigate Goose, he turns and runs toward me, ears back…almost in fear. He’s just starting to stand his ground with some dogs, but almost always, he runs and shows fear of larger dogs. Even when they are friendly!!! From the way you saw him with a small dog, you would think he’s always aggressive. With a large dog, you would think he has “fear” issues and is the most submissive dog.

Why does he act so differently? With small dogs, is it just his "drive or prey drive?" Is he just being dominate? Herding? Why is he fearful of large dogs? Why is it either polar opposites for him to fear or get aggressive? WHAT CAN I DO TO HELP HIM/TRAIN HIM?

Thanks for any help!!

[Jax08]

The only thing I can comment on is you need to stop the behavior before it begins and be proactive. Once you start popping him with the prong collar, you are already behind the game. And pay attention to how he reacts when corrected with a prong. It ramped my girl up and did the opposite of what I wanted. What has worked for me is the LAT game and getting her attention on me BEFORE the other dog gets to us. Whether I put her in a sit, heel or walk the other way.

[gsdraven]

Do you have a good trainer/behaviorist that you can work with? You should really get someone experienced to watch him in action to determine what you are dealing with. I'd let go of the dominant/aggressive stereotypes.

It is entirely possible that both of his reactions are based in fear but they he has learned that his big displays with smaller dogs makes them go away whereas it just amps up the large dogs which is why he chooses to flea first. You correct him when he shows fear of larger dogs or did I read that wrong?

Like Jax08 said, by the time he's reacting, you're too late to make a difference other than just ramping him up more. A good strong "Leave it" with the smaller dogs should be enough to let him know to ignore them and mind his own business. With larger dogs, you want him to be confident enough not to run away but I certainly wouldn't encourage him to "stand his ground".

Do you have access to dog classes where he can be socialized to other dogs in a controlled setting with someone who knows how to read dogs and can properly guide you on how to handle Goose's issues?

[Goose]

Originally Posted by gsdraven

Do you have a good trainer/behaviorist that you can work with? You should really get someone experienced to watch him in action to determine what you are dealing with. I'd let go of the dominant/aggressive stereotypes.

It is entirely possible that both of his reactions are based in fear but they he has learned that his big displays with smaller dogs makes them go away whereas it just amps up the large dogs which is why he chooses to flea first. You correct him when he shows fear of larger dogs or did I read that wrong?

Like Jax08 said, by the time he's reacting, you're too late to make a difference other than just ramping him up more. A good strong "Leave it" with the smaller dogs should be enough to let him know to ignore them and mind his own business. With larger dogs, you want him to be confident enough not to run away but I certainly wouldn't encourage him to "stand his ground".

Do you have access to dog classes where he can be socialized to other dogs in a controlled setting with someone who knows how to read dogs and can properly guide you on how to handle Goose's issues?

I got him as a re-home when he was 8 months. He was the alpha in that situation. When I got him, he was jumping up, doing whatever he wanted, nipping, ect. My co-worker got him as a puppy, not even researching what it takes to care for a dog, let alone a GSD. So that should tell you how bad he was and obviously received ZERO training for his first 8 months. Goose was around kids that whole 8 months, as my friend has a family. He was great with them, but ran the show and did what he wanted. I basically started from scratch and he's improved A LOT, but not where I need him to be.

I do not correct when he's scared of big dogs. I try to ignore and not reinforce. I usually stay calm and positive.

Yes, we do go to our local city classes. About 12 dogs. He's in his last week of a 8 week course. The trainer just says he's being "dominate" and I need to correct him down to a calm state with the crong collar. At 1.5 years, he's about 95 lbs. I am 5'11 and 220 myself, if it wasn't for my size, I wouldn't be able to handle him. But that's all she really says. "He's being dominate." He does seem more aggitated in class. He has ZERO concentration. Once, the trainer took him to get a "feel" for him...it took Goose 20 mins to realize I was standing off to the side. He didn't even realize I wasn't holding the leash. His mind goes a mile a minute.

Thanks for the feedback. Maybe I just need a better trainer.....?

[Jack's Dad]

A lot of these threads have a common theme about reactivity around other dogs. For a starter I don't understand where people are that they come in contact with so many dogs.
Regardless of his issues, when you walk, your dog should be paying attention to you and where you are going, not other dogs.
I've said this before, I do not believe the walk is for anything except for exercise and bonding.
If you want your dog to play or interact with other dogs do it in a controlled environment until you can correct these behaviors.
People allow their dogs too much freedom on walks and that can and does often cause problems.

[Goose]

Originally Posted by Jax08

The only thing I can comment on is you need to stop the behavior before it begins and be proactive. Once you start popping him with the prong collar, you are already behind the game. And pay attention to how he reacts when corrected with a prong. It ramped my girl up and did the opposite of what I wanted. What has worked for me is the LAT game and getting her attention on me BEFORE the other dog gets to us. Whether I put her in a sit, heel or walk the other way.

Once he see's the small dog, he's already jacked up. Ears high, focused on them, ect. A "leave it" hasn't worked. (I've used "OFF")

I worry if I walk the other way, I am ignoring the situation. I worry I am not solving the problem, but rather avoiding it. Know what I mean..? I like the idea of making him sit to the side walkway.

Thanks for the advice!!

[Jack's Dad]

Originally Posted by Goose

Once he see's the small dog, he's already jacked up. Ears high, focused on them, ect. A "leave it" hasn't worked. (I've used "OFF")

I worry if I walk the other way, I am ignoring the situation. I worry I am not solving the problem, but rather avoiding it. Know what I mean..? I like the idea of making him sit to the side walkway.

Thanks for the advice!!

Correction should be as soon as he even starts to look at another dog.

Calmly pick up the pace and keep going. If he sits it just allows him to focus on the other dog and become more amped up.

[Goose]

Originally Posted by Jack's Dad

A lot of these threads have a common theme about reactivity around other dogs. For a starter I don't understand where people are that they come in contact with so many dogs.
Regardless of his issues, when you walk, your dog should be paying attention to you and where you are going, not other dogs.
I've said this before, I do not believe the walk is for anything except for exercise and bonding.
If you want your dog to play or interact with other dogs do it in a controlled environment until you can correct these behaviors.
People allow their dogs too much freedom on walks and that can and does often cause problems.

I live in Long Beach, CA. Every neighbor's property that touches my property....has a dog. It's a dog city. It is IMPOSSIBLE to go on a daily walk without passing at least one dog...serioulsy, it's impossible. Dogs everywhere. I guess that's why this problem is so important for me to get control of. I want to be able to have lunch, on the patio of a resturant, with Goose by my side and not have to worry about him and/or his behavior.

We do a lot of backpacking, 20 miles over two or three days. We don't see more than 10 people over that period, if that. In these situations and trips, it's the ONLY time I let him off leash. Rock climbing and hiking, while holding a leash is nearly impossible with the terrain we do.

[gsdraven]

Originally Posted by Goose

But that's all she really says. "He's being dominate."

Thanks for the feedback. Maybe I just need a better trainer.....?

Dominant to who? What? Why? Dogs aren't "dominant" just because they feel like it and the majority of dogs do not want to be in control. If they are taking control it's because they don't feel like their person is. Again, let go of the dominant theories.

And yes, at least one vote here for a better trainer. Preferably one experienced with GSD, Reactivity or Aggression but ideally all of the above.

I don't like the sitting technique for reactive dogs. It gives them a chance to focus rather than keeping them busy. I find that just moving along while keeping yourself much more interesting than everything around you is much more effective.

[Jax08]

I think you need to get over the ideas of "alpha" and "dominant" and yes, get a better trainer. He sounds like an overgrown, untrained puppy whose never been taught anything. He didn't realize you were gone because you don't have a relationship with him. Believe me, if I hand over the leash, my dog watches the spot she last saw me until I come back. I've watched her do it.

Walking away will not "ignore" the situation. It's taking away the visual stimulation that is causing him to react. I just simply say "Nope, let's go" and head the other way.

"correcting until he's calm" is crap. Sorry but I really disagree with your trainer on that theory. I've tried the compulsion and it doesn't work. It only hurt my relationship with her and caused a lot of frustration.

Seriously though...the LAT game has done more for her reactivity than ANYTHING else. I've done the prong collar, ignoring, redirecting, avoiding. What made a difference was getting a new trainer with a positive, progressive, method to teach me how to teach her that there is nothing to fear. I have no problem using a correction. I prefer an e-collar, especially in this situation, but you have to know how to use the collar and when to give the correction.

There are many, many people on this board from California. Maybe you could start a new thread and ask for recommendations on trainers in your area.