Regression in 13 month old

PhoenixOrion · 11-05-2011, 01:58 PM

In the last few weeks, Dallas (13 months old) has been regressing to behaviors we haven't seen since early puppyhood, such as nipping (particularly at the kids), urinating/cowering when he's in trouble, and eliminating in the house.

I have no idea what could be causing his regression but it's kind of worrisome. The nipping seems to be mostly in play but yesterday I actually heard him make a barking sound at my 9yo before lunging at him. It scared the crap out of my son and when I tried to 'correct' Dallas, he cowered and urinated on the floor. I don't understand the cowering specifically; we have never struck or yelled at him but it seems to scare him when we point at his nose and tell him No. We're firm but not mean. What's that about?

The eliminating in the house is odd because other than when he's scared, he never urinates indoors. And he could be outside for hours and never "go" but shortly after returning inside, he'll go into a room where no one is present and "do his business." As soon as I bring it to his attention, he acknowledges he's done wrong. So...why's he doing it?

ETA: One other thing is that when I take him outside, he takes off into a neighbor's yard or across the road. We do not have a fence and lately I've had to put him on a lead long enough to force elimination but prior to the above issues, we have always just taken him out for walks, play and elimination w/o a leash mostly. Up until the onset of these issues, he's never strayed outside of our yard and the only time we've needed a leash was for longer walks. Now, we can't take him out w/o a leash or he runs off. Do you think it's because he's still intact and maybe a female in the neighborhood is in heat? Or is this another general thing?

The only thing I can think of is that we've recently remodeled our family room and restricted his access to it so now, he's not allowed in there. But I noticed the onset of his regression before we began on the room. So I don't know if that situation has just made things worse or what's going on.

Anyone experience this before? Is it just another part of growing up or is there something wrong? Any advice is appreciated.

Stosh · 11-05-2011, 03:56 PM

Most of them go through a 'butthead' phase where they forget everything they were ever taught and become selectively deaf to commands. But his behavior seems a little more than that, especially going in the house. I'm sure someone will have better suggestions but I would go back to basics, try NILIF, maybe tether him to you. He sounds a little insecure and it might be because of the change in the household

4TheDawgies · 11-05-2011, 05:03 PM

how much exercise does this dog get?
This could be a sign of a dog who is not getting enough exercise.

The pottying indoors after he has been outside for hours is a very simple solution. Your dog was outside for hours. He may not have gone potty since he was first let out. He may have had a 3/4 of the way full bladder and didn't pee it out yet. Then you bring him inside and now all of a sudden he doesn't have a chance to empty that bladder. what is he left to do? Go and pee in a room.

So when he has been outside for a while. Bring him in, invite him to drink water real quick, then take him back outside, encourage him to potty, then praise lavishly and invite back indoors to stay in for a while.

The urinating and cowering is potentially from a fear period arising. However if he is displaying this much submission to you when in trouble, then this is a sign you need to let up. German Shepherds as a breed are generally handler sensitive. There are obviously exceptions to the rule. If your dog is displaying this big of a submission act towards you it could be one of a few things. Either he doesn't understand what he is being corrected for, he is very confused and you continue pressuring him with your "punishment" and he resorts to submissive urination. or your initial correction is understood but your correction is too strong for your dog.
Despite apearing like an adult dog at 13 months old, your dog is still very much a baby.

Keep in mind when correcting your dog, that you have literally half a second to give a reward marker or a correction for a behavior. Any longer and you are correcting or rewarding a different behavior. That is why training techniques have all begun swinging in favor of clicker training or verbal reward markers.
It can sometimes be hard to get the food to the dogs mouth quick enough to be rewarding the correct behavior. but the clicker is able to make the sound right as the dog does the desired behavior no matter where the dog is, and then you can take your time a little more on delivering the reward.

So if your dog is pottying in the house, if you catch him in the act as he is peeing and you correct him, then you are fine. But a correction should be quick and short. depending on the situation a collar pop, a firm no or ah-ah. But a correction should last no longer than a second. If it goes on any longer you are over doing it and its unnecessary.
If you find the pee in your house and try to punish your dog for something he did 5 minutes ago. or EVEN a few seconds ago but your dog has already bolted out of the room, then you are punishing for something entirely else. Your window of opportunity has closed. Dogs do not understand revenge, or any sort of delayed punishment. Dogs live entirely in the "now" and are not thinking about what they just did.

If you are finding pee and your dog has a guilty look and acts like you are about to beat the crap out of it, (even though you never have and never will). Your dog is then demonstrating that they are picking up on your anger, frustration, and negative mood and are trying to act submissive to appease you.

I would never use "pointing" as a form of punishment. dogs do not understand it, and it can make negative associations with a pointing finger. So when a young child points a finger at a dog, it can make the dog either get very submissive and uncomfortable because its worried, or in some dogs cases make the dog lash out because they don't want a stranger to point a finger at them because its a negative thing.

The lunging and barking at your son was probably play. If the dog was trying to cause harm to your child, he would have already. Learn to recognize dog body language and what is playful behavior and what is aggressive. Dogs will still bark, play, and sometimes even show teeth in play.

I would not correct your dog for trying to initiate play. You are taking away a valuable language tool dogs use. Instead everytime your dog initiates play with you or your son I would turn it into a type of play you are comfortable with. Tug-o-war, fetch, chase, whatever it is.
You basically punished your dog for what to him was play. this is very confusing for a dog and quite upsetting, so his extreme submission isn't out of character.

The running off is what prompted my question about exercise. A dog who is not fulfilled daily with exercise and stimulation is not being treated properly. this can cause the dog to decide to fulfill those things for themselves. If you do not fulfill those needs as a "pack leader" to your dog, then your dog will no longer consider you as such and will begin to do their own thing. I would recommend increasing your amount of exercise for the dog, plus play some games with your dog to help stimulate their mind. Or join an obedience class and teach your dog some new things. This will work your dogs mind, and walks, jogs, hikes, or bike rides will wear out your dogs body.

Fulfilling those two things will fix a lot of the problems you are having now. It will slow down the intensity of the play with your son so he wont be as likely to lunge and bark, he wont nip at you as much out of not only respect but because he doesn't need to release energy in random areas, and he will calm down overall.

hope that helps you out.

Good Luck!

**MaggieRoseLee** · 11-06-2011, 08:22 AM

I think you are right to take this seriously BUT not in a MUST TAKE CHARGE AND COME DOWN ON HIM (not that you are). It appears that he's 'soft' which isn't uncommon in our dogs.

So to train we have to figure out how to 'show' them what we want or do not want, cause any type of correction causes a sensory overload and brain shutdown (the submissive behavior with urination shows that). There's not learning going on to a specific behavior............ just a general breakdown of ALL communication for your puppy (who is a puppy BTW still) in his attempt to just show you he knows you are the boss and in charge sorry sorry sorry sorry.

But what he SPECIFICALLY has done and SPECIFICALLY is sorry for is not happening. He will just be in brain overload OH MY GOSH and so as likely to repeat the 'whatever' as not.

How are the dog classes.

What dog classes are you taking. They aren't really so much about the specific behaviors (like a 'sit') as US learning how to work with an communicate with this particular dog in different situations. All our dogs are different so I may have raised one perfectly with no issues and been patting myself on the back for being a natural Dog Whisperer

and then the next puppy comes along and it's like I've never raised a dog at all! The BEST trainers have raised and help work with tons of dogs so can help!

How is your bond/relationship with your dog? Can you instantly start up 'engagement' with your pup? Click this --> Engagement - Key to Training

GSD's need to be mentally AND physically exercised. Some more than others. I know I need to get my monthly calendar down and SCHEDULE training and exercise for my dogs the same as I would soccer, scouts, or bowling. It's as important for my DOG to have these activities as for my children or myself. And if it's not on the schedule then it's not going to happen.

Exercise, real training (with a REAL trainer) whether obedience, herding, tracking, agility, tricks, whatever.............. and making the time to work with the dog to work thru the issues rather then correcting and isolating which frequently becomes the WRONG solution.

BTW, can you call the breeder for help? The reason we all go with the best breeders is for the lifetime help we can get from them.

These are the types of activities that help tire out my pups:

You Tube

You Tube

You Tube

PhoenixOrion · 11-07-2011, 04:16 PM

Lots of great advice, thank you. I've shared with my husband and we'll be making changes accordingly.

After reading everything, I think the two main concerns are that 1) Dallas is such a big baby (though I'm not complaining; for being so large and overall intimidating, I'd rather have that than overly aggressive), and 2) he needs more mental stimulation. We already play, walk, etc. every day and he gets the same attention our children do re: scheduling.

Other than creating new games for him, what other things can I do to mentally engage him?

Stosh · 11-07-2011, 04:40 PM

If you have time to take him to a class- obedience, agility, tracking, things like that. Teach some tricks and string them together. He's at the age where he's needing a job to do so find some things around the house like carrying the paper or mail to the house, putting his toys away. Lots of ideas on the forums here

PhoenixOrion · 11-07-2011, 04:48 PM

I will, thank you again.

11-05-2011, 01:58 PM	#1 (permalink)
PhoenixOrion New Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Harpers Ferry, WV Posts: 11	Regression in 13 month old In the last few weeks, Dallas (13 months old) has been regressing to behaviors we haven't seen since early puppyhood, such as nipping (particularly at the kids), urinating/cowering when he's in trouble, and eliminating in the house. I have no idea what could be causing his regression but it's kind of worrisome. The nipping seems to be mostly in play but yesterday I actually heard him make a barking sound at my 9yo before lunging at him. It scared the crap out of my son and when I tried to 'correct' Dallas, he cowered and urinated on the floor. I don't understand the cowering specifically; we have never struck or yelled at him but it seems to scare him when we point at his nose and tell him No. We're firm but not mean. What's that about? The eliminating in the house is odd because other than when he's scared, he never urinates indoors. And he could be outside for hours and never "go" but shortly after returning inside, he'll go into a room where no one is present and "do his business." As soon as I bring it to his attention, he acknowledges he's done wrong. So...why's he doing it? ETA: One other thing is that when I take him outside, he takes off into a neighbor's yard or across the road. We do not have a fence and lately I've had to put him on a lead long enough to force elimination but prior to the above issues, we have always just taken him out for walks, play and elimination w/o a leash mostly. Up until the onset of these issues, he's never strayed outside of our yard and the only time we've needed a leash was for longer walks. Now, we can't take him out w/o a leash or he runs off. Do you think it's because he's still intact and maybe a female in the neighborhood is in heat? Or is this another general thing? The only thing I can think of is that we've recently remodeled our family room and restricted his access to it so now, he's not allowed in there. But I noticed the onset of his regression before we began on the room. So I don't know if that situation has just made things worse or what's going on. Anyone experience this before? Is it just another part of growing up or is there something wrong? Any advice is appreciated. Last edited by PhoenixOrion; 11-05-2011 at 02:02 PM.

11-05-2011, 05:03 PM	#3 (permalink)
4TheDawgies Master Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: KS Posts: 746	how much exercise does this dog get? This could be a sign of a dog who is not getting enough exercise. The pottying indoors after he has been outside for hours is a very simple solution. Your dog was outside for hours. He may not have gone potty since he was first let out. He may have had a 3/4 of the way full bladder and didn't pee it out yet. Then you bring him inside and now all of a sudden he doesn't have a chance to empty that bladder. what is he left to do? Go and pee in a room. So when he has been outside for a while. Bring him in, invite him to drink water real quick, then take him back outside, encourage him to potty, then praise lavishly and invite back indoors to stay in for a while. The urinating and cowering is potentially from a fear period arising. However if he is displaying this much submission to you when in trouble, then this is a sign you need to let up. German Shepherds as a breed are generally handler sensitive. There are obviously exceptions to the rule. If your dog is displaying this big of a submission act towards you it could be one of a few things. Either he doesn't understand what he is being corrected for, he is very confused and you continue pressuring him with your "punishment" and he resorts to submissive urination. or your initial correction is understood but your correction is too strong for your dog. Despite apearing like an adult dog at 13 months old, your dog is still very much a baby. Keep in mind when correcting your dog, that you have literally half a second to give a reward marker or a correction for a behavior. Any longer and you are correcting or rewarding a different behavior. That is why training techniques have all begun swinging in favor of clicker training or verbal reward markers. It can sometimes be hard to get the food to the dogs mouth quick enough to be rewarding the correct behavior. but the clicker is able to make the sound right as the dog does the desired behavior no matter where the dog is, and then you can take your time a little more on delivering the reward. So if your dog is pottying in the house, if you catch him in the act as he is peeing and you correct him, then you are fine. But a correction should be quick and short. depending on the situation a collar pop, a firm no or ah-ah. But a correction should last no longer than a second. If it goes on any longer you are over doing it and its unnecessary. If you find the pee in your house and try to punish your dog for something he did 5 minutes ago. or EVEN a few seconds ago but your dog has already bolted out of the room, then you are punishing for something entirely else. Your window of opportunity has closed. Dogs do not understand revenge, or any sort of delayed punishment. Dogs live entirely in the "now" and are not thinking about what they just did. If you are finding pee and your dog has a guilty look and acts like you are about to beat the crap out of it, (even though you never have and never will). Your dog is then demonstrating that they are picking up on your anger, frustration, and negative mood and are trying to act submissive to appease you. I would never use "pointing" as a form of punishment. dogs do not understand it, and it can make negative associations with a pointing finger. So when a young child points a finger at a dog, it can make the dog either get very submissive and uncomfortable because its worried, or in some dogs cases make the dog lash out because they don't want a stranger to point a finger at them because its a negative thing. The lunging and barking at your son was probably play. If the dog was trying to cause harm to your child, he would have already. Learn to recognize dog body language and what is playful behavior and what is aggressive. Dogs will still bark, play, and sometimes even show teeth in play. I would not correct your dog for trying to initiate play. You are taking away a valuable language tool dogs use. Instead everytime your dog initiates play with you or your son I would turn it into a type of play you are comfortable with. Tug-o-war, fetch, chase, whatever it is. You basically punished your dog for what to him was play. this is very confusing for a dog and quite upsetting, so his extreme submission isn't out of character. The running off is what prompted my question about exercise. A dog who is not fulfilled daily with exercise and stimulation is not being treated properly. this can cause the dog to decide to fulfill those things for themselves. If you do not fulfill those needs as a "pack leader" to your dog, then your dog will no longer consider you as such and will begin to do their own thing. I would recommend increasing your amount of exercise for the dog, plus play some games with your dog to help stimulate their mind. Or join an obedience class and teach your dog some new things. This will work your dogs mind, and walks, jogs, hikes, or bike rides will wear out your dogs body. Fulfilling those two things will fix a lot of the problems you are having now. It will slow down the intensity of the play with your son so he wont be as likely to lunge and bark, he wont nip at you as much out of not only respect but because he doesn't need to release energy in random areas, and he will calm down overall. hope that helps you out. Good Luck! __________________ "For the animal shall not be measured by man. In a world older and more complete than ours they move finished and complete, gifted with extensions of the senses we have lost or never attained, living by voices we shall never hear."

11-05-2011, 03:56 PM	#2 (permalink)
Stosh Crowned Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: tyler texas Posts: 8,434	Most of them go through a 'butthead' phase where they forget everything they were ever taught and become selectively deaf to commands. But his behavior seems a little more than that, especially going in the house. I'm sure someone will have better suggestions but I would go back to basics, try NILIF, maybe tether him to you. He sounds a little insecure and it might be because of the change in the household

11-07-2011, 04:16 PM	#5 (permalink)
PhoenixOrion New Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Harpers Ferry, WV Posts: 11	Lots of great advice, thank you. I've shared with my husband and we'll be making changes accordingly. After reading everything, I think the two main concerns are that 1) Dallas is such a big baby (though I'm not complaining; for being so large and overall intimidating, I'd rather have that than overly aggressive), and 2) he needs more mental stimulation. We already play, walk, etc. every day and he gets the same attention our children do re: scheduling. Other than creating new games for him, what other things can I do to mentally engage him?

11-07-2011, 04:40 PM	#6 (permalink)
Stosh Crowned Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: tyler texas Posts: 8,434	If you have time to take him to a class- obedience, agility, tracking, things like that. Teach some tricks and string them together. He's at the age where he's needing a job to do so find some things around the house like carrying the paper or mail to the house, putting his toys away. Lots of ideas on the forums here

11-07-2011, 04:48 PM	#7 (permalink)
PhoenixOrion New Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Harpers Ferry, WV Posts: 11	I will, thank you again.

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