GSD Female being "flat" in personality

[Life.Interrupted.2x]

Question I wish to toss out at everyone on here...anything would be appreciated.
My male, 2, is mostly DDR with 1/4 Czech. Best dog in the world. I thought when I lost my female I'd never be able to bond with any dog. I don't have any issues with my boy, however, the female, has a personality of an ant hill. She has absolutely NO willingness to please, and is a loner. She is fine in new situations, kids are so so, high prey drive...I was told upon purchase she was full Czech, however, I see Belgium sport ring in her lines as well as some Holland. Does anyone think this is a contributing factor?

Carole has her own agenda. I purchased her as a put at 3.5 months...she seemed like a very nice pup. She has turned into a personality type I don't care for...not affectionate, loner, etc. I keep getting advice from those I work with, but I would think that after 6 months, there would be something. I feel a little cheated, as my prior female was all old Czech lines and was a true clown...really a good girl. Unfortunately I lost her to DM and microcardia at the age of 2 1/2. After the purchase of this, I know I may have had some expectations, but I tried not to do so.

She is very flat. Her obedience is getting better, tracking amazing, bitework phenomenal. She is clean, full hard bite.

However, her personality is way too independent for me...good breeding prospect, but I really am tossed about keeping her. Feels like I am just putting in WAY too much time to get anything out of her. Her work ethics are super, personality compliant. Something about her makes me feel totally bored.

Her lines are Bohemia and a few other well known's. It is frustrating me to no end...I am starting to think that she would do best in a SCH home...I only work with PSA/PPD and other types of dogs, and feel that I am not doing her much justice. She was pretty expensive, not that that means anything, and needs minimal correction.

She is trained/started, but there is just no bond whatsoever. My male on the other hand well, I could not ask for a better dog. He's a Charik Galan Nalag son, she is a Fox z Lounskeho chovu daughter.

Anyone care to comment on the lines, etc? I'm open to suggestions. Male is working in the field all the time, I was hoping she would be doing the same, but with much zing. She also avoids eye contact whenever possible.

Healthy as an ox. Just not reading her, or maybe she can't read me.

Thanks! PM's are OK too.

[doggiedad]

your opinion of this dog is all over the place. is
it the dog or is it your training and socialzing technigues??

Originally Posted by Life.Interrupted.2x

Question I wish to toss out at everyone on here...anything would be appreciated.
My male, 2, is mostly DDR with 1/4 Czech. Best dog in the world. I thought when I lost my female I'd never be able to bond with any dog. I don't have any issues with my boy, however, the female, has a personality of an ant hill. She has absolutely NO willingness to please, and is a loner. She is fine in new situations, kids are so so, high prey drive...I was told upon purchase she was full Czech, however, I see Belgium sport ring in her lines as well as some Holland. Does anyone think this is a contributing factor?

Carole has her own agenda. I purchased her as a put at 3.5 months...she seemed like a very nice pup. She has turned into a personality type I don't care for...not affectionate, loner, etc. I keep getting advice from those I work with, but I would think that after 6 months, there would be something. I feel a little cheated, as my prior female was all old Czech lines and was a true clown...really a good girl. Unfortunately I lost her to DM and microcardia at the age of 2 1/2. After the purchase of this, I know I may have had some expectations, but I tried not to do so.

She is very flat. Her obedience is getting better, tracking amazing, bitework phenomenal. She is clean, full hard bite.

However, her personality is way too independent for me...good breeding prospect, but I really am tossed about keeping her. Feels like I am just putting in WAY too much time to get anything out of her. Her work ethics are super, personality compliant. Something about her makes me feel totally bored.

Her lines are Bohemia and a few other well known's. It is frustrating me to no end...I am starting to think that she would do best in a SCH home...I only work with PSA/PPD and other types of dogs, and feel that I am not doing her much justice. She was pretty expensive, not that that means anything, and needs minimal correction.

She is trained/started, but there is just no bond whatsoever. My male on the other hand well, I could not ask for a better dog. He's a Charik Galan Nalag son, she is a Fox z Lounskeho chovu daughter.

Anyone care to comment on the lines, etc? I'm open to suggestions. Male is working in the field all the time, I was hoping she would be doing the same, but with much zing. She also avoids eye contact whenever possible.

Healthy as an ox. Just not reading her, or maybe she can't read me.

Thanks! PM's are OK too.

[wolfstraum]

Your male is at least 1/4 Belgian too....his sire is by Gringo Mohnwiese! I had a Gringo litter and the pups were all social and affectionate - and terrific workers too....don't know what the rest of his pedigree is - or hers....but if you don't LIKE the dog - it may be better to place her somewhere/with someone that her personality is more compatible with!

Lee

[PaddyD]

Is there some way you can test the bond, or lack of it? Maybe it is there she is bonded but confident enough not to be around you 24/7.
If she is performing as you say then she is listening and taking your training.

[BlackGSD]

I agree with Lee. If you don't like her, find someone else that will. IMO, this doesn't say anything bad about you nor her. Just that your personalities don't mix well.

Chances are she KNOWS you don't like her.

[chelle]

I'm likely totally oversimplifying, but not all dogs bond with their owners or she may just be an aloof-type dog. I own one. (non-GSD) She does love me, in her own way, but she doesn't seek me out like my other dogs do. I'm sure she's likely picking up on your frustration, but even so, she may not change. Sounds like her nature. You could re-home, but it may not make any difference if her true personality is to simply be a very aloof dog.

[jang]

He is never going to take the place of your lost female-- type them all you want but the dog needs a new home--he's no happier than you..maybe he knows he is not living up to your needs

[carmspack]

It just might be that this dog , Carole is it?, is more typical of the old Czech type than your "clown" dog was .

What you are saying is what I covered in another thread , euro-czech lines .

I am having some very interesting conversations with a contact regarding post war west German , CzechSlovakian, Serbian , Slavic gsd populations .
Tonights conversation , before I laid eyes on this thread , had to do with people not appreciating what to do or how to train dogs like this . And by your description and my contact , this is more of the old country style . The dogs were "tools" to be used. They didn't live in the hearth of the family , laying on beds. Nor did the shepherd's dogs who were lucky to have a shed or sleep under the stars with the shepherds . The dogs were not pets .
What was important was , 1) are they stable 2) do they have courage and fighting drive 3) are they naturally healthy .
Not ball drive or play drive .

Try a different approach . Take her on and do more of a drill like training -- by which I mean assert a little more authority --. Don't focus on the prey drive . Have her give to you . Don't do schutzhund out of prey .
Give the dog time to mature . Have a very fair relationship . Ask something of her . Reward .
No bite work out of play.
Wait until she is mature and then do it out of fight , which unfortunately a lot of decoys don't know how to start.
No cheap easy bites . Grip does not need to be developed.
When you get to that point , the dog has been frustrated a few times -- no bite- then the day comes when you sense the dogs energy - and then you let r rip , and you will see the intensity.
The bond comes from respect , not from friendship. The friendship comes later from the bond gained out of respect.

Been there , done that .

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs

[carmspack]

Is this the pedigree of your female Carol Boca Bohemia - German Shepherd Dog

very nice pedigree indeed . Much more "czech" than your male !!!! Troll Milinda I know for a fact produced a few dogs for the Swedish military.

This would be the sire of your male Charik Galán Nalag - German Shepherd Dog .

The pedigree of the female is "czech" -- you were not tricked.

You bought her at 3.5 months , had her for 6 --- just checking the facts , and you are already doing bite work , when no bond has been developed.
This is my problem with a lot of sport clubs . They just roll along on a schedule, one size fits all.
You said that the dog had a great work ethic. Holy moly , far better a great work ethic than a play-toy GSD . The work ethic will see you through hard dirty work . The dog will be dedicated, self - motivated.
Maybe you are bored because you want more playfulness .
She sounds typically stoic , very well suited to personal protection , more so than schutzhund sport.
I would think that this dog would have done best if you create the bond out of respect , not friendship, then the friendship will come out of the respect .
I would have worked her and been creative but seen a request through -- till we had the understanding that if I say it you will do it . It has to be totally fair and realistic , and fair in that the dogs efforts are appreciated , the effort not just the result . That is how the trust is built . When you are working in synch and the dog "likes" you , then you do the bite work , not out of prey or play , but out of fight .

A while ago there was a poster (who I think has left) who wanted to provide dogs for women bothered by abusive men from failed relationships. I would recommend this type of dog , who is not "needy" , as personal protection much much more than the "sport" or "show" types that he will likely select .
Dog is not reactive - is this correct statment .
Probably has good assertive active aggression - fight drive .

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs

[Life.Interrupted.2x]

Hi Carmen...very interesting, yes, she is Carol Boca Bohemia, and my male is Barbar Errinor, Charik son...I have two great dogs. God, I hated him when I got him, as there was SO much defense put on this dog, that he bit me a few times. I had to establish and redo some of the training he already had when in the Czech Republic. I remember telling the trainers to please take him away. Not long after, we worked very nicely together. He would sit and stare at me waiting...still now, he does the same thing. He's calmed down a LOT but still will not go to sleep without me. Makes his patrol of the house, and then he will lay down, with one eye open. I don't think he ever sleeps!

I am glad you took the time to research out Carol's pedigree...yes, I've been told its a pretty impressive pedigree...to me, I had no clue what I was looking at, but I trusted the breeder. Carol, btw, is a larger than normal female.

As far as her training, yes, the clubs are usually generic...a "one size fits all" and I did question that...which is why I took her to another trainer on Sunday for an evaluation. He said "old Czech lines" "excellent hips" she really had no use for this man on Sunday, as the entire time, she was walking around for an hour or more not lifting her nose off the ground.

Yes, paid for her on 4/25/11, picked her up on 4/29/11, as I needed to puppy proof the house...she was kenneled and was not house trained when I got her. She learned pretty quick. So yes, 6 months here living with me.

Carol is not very reactive to anything...she is a watcher...a thinker. I don't see any hidden aggression...yet. She has not been in a position for me to see fight drive. I did she all of her teeth though, against another male that trained to mount her at training. As for my male, he is dopey and slobbers us all with kisses, yet will lay his life down for me...in the next view, I will catch him down sleeping on my 88 year old mothers couch. My daughter will paint his nails, (shes 4) and he sits there, soaking it all up. Outside and in the car, he's on guard at all times. Two diff. dogs. She dominates him, and the funny part is Carmen, is that he allows it. Typical male~!

Someone at training said she was the nicest female he's seen in a long time...now I'll respond to your next note...thanks!