Rolls over and latches on to my arm when I grab his collar?

Emoore · 08-30-2010, 12:29 AM

Wondering if any of you guys have seen this behavior. Whenever I grab my new foster's collar, he rolls over on his back and then grabs my arm in his jaws. It's not a bite but it's a pretty hard grab-- no blood but it definitely leaves marks. He's a year or so old. If I'm trying to get him to go out or into his crate, he just lays there and I have to drag him around with my arm in his mouth. Any idea what's causing this and what I can do about it? He can't go to an adoptive home like this-- somebody will say "dog bite" so fast he'll never know what hit him.

Elaine · 08-30-2010, 01:12 AM

I have had fosters do this and it's avoidance behavior on their part. They have learned that by putting up refusing to move and threatening to bite, they can get away with whatever they want. I don't put up with it and the first time a foster tries this on me, is the last time. They quickly find themselves moved to wherever I want them to be and shaken and yelled at for grabbing my arm. They have had a lot of success in intimidating people and finding themselves on the receiving end is a huge wake up call for them. As soon as they let go and get on their feet, they are promptly praised. It doesn't take long before they decide which is the better behavior.

KZoppa · 08-30-2010, 01:15 AM

Thanks Elaine as this actually helps me with an idea for correcting this behavior in my puppy. She's quickly learning she cant do what she wants whenever she wants and she's recently started doing the same thing with myself and my husband and its gotta stop because my 2 year old daughter helps us a great with the dogs as well so when its meal time or crate time. I know she's just being a puppy but the fact remains, its a no-no.

patti · 08-30-2010, 01:53 AM

I hate to admit, but Bo has tried this too. He doesn't get away with it, so I can't remember the last time he has tried it.

paulag1955 · 08-30-2010, 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KZoppa

Thanks Elaine as this actually helps me with an idea for correcting this behavior in my puppy. She's quickly learning she cant do what she wants whenever she wants and she's recently started doing the same thing with myself and my husband and its gotta stop because my 2 year old daughter helps us a great with the dogs as well so when its meal time or crate time. I know she's just being a puppy but the fact remains, its a no-no.

What's your idea for correcting this? Shasta does the same thing. She flops down and goes completely limp, then turns and grabs my arm when I go to pick her up or try to get her on her feet. I've taken to luring her to her feet, but I'm not sure that's a good idea.

KZoppa · 08-30-2010, 02:17 AM

I used the tethering method on her for a couple hours so when she didnt want to go on her own where she was supposed to go, she didnt have a choice and got dragged. And i've had to pin her a couple times using her scruff which she was NOT happy about one bit. She screamed and hollared like i was killing her. Told her i wasnt falling for it and she just stopped all her carrying on. But after a couple times of her trying to "bite" me away and being pinned and me literally yelping like another dog would, she started to get the idea. And every time she would do it, she'd get a crate door closed time out for about 5 minutes. and we'd try again. Well the shaking and yelling mentioned above actually makes some sense to because if its a negative experience and loud at that, they're not real likely to do it again but they'll also forgive pretty quick only this time they know whats allowed and whats not. make sense? i'm tired so i may just be rambling.

KZoppa · 08-30-2010, 02:19 AM

another thing my Shasta has learned.... i'm a lot faster than she thinks i am. she'll go for one arm and i'll use my other hand to grab her scruff and pin her down or direct her where i want her to go so either way she isn't doing what SHE wants to do.

paulag1955 · 08-30-2010, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KZoppa

another thing my Shasta has learned.... i'm a lot faster than she thinks i am. she'll go for one arm and i'll use my other hand to grab her scruff and pin her down or direct her where i want her to go so either way she isn't doing what SHE wants to do.

I hate dragging her. I feel so mean and I feel like it's not really doing anything to fix the underlying problem. Plus, I'm old and slow.

BowWowMeow · 08-30-2010, 02:25 AM

I would be very cautious about getting all agro (as Elaine describes) on a dog who's exhibiting this behavior ESPECIALLY if the dog is 1.) a rescue with an unknown past or 2) a puppy. For a rescue it could be very dangerous (as in you don't want the grab to turn into a real bite) and for a puppy it really isn't necessary.

If I had a problem like this I would stop grabbing the dog's collar. If it's a puppy then I'd find a different way to train the behavior I want, step up the NILIF and daily training and then use positive reinforcement to condition the dog to happily accept a collar grab.

For a rescue I'd figure out a different way to move the dog around (like throwing something irresistible into the crate at every chance possible (not just when you're leaving, putting the dog away, etc.). Then I'd use positive reinforcement (clicker training is a great one here) and very slowly teach them that touching their collar is a good thing.

BowWowMeow · 08-30-2010, 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KZoppa

another thing my Shasta has learned.... i'm a lot faster than she thinks i am. she'll go for one arm and i'll use my other hand to grab her scruff and pin her down or direct her where i want her to go so either way she isn't doing what SHE wants to do.

This is the absolute worst thing you can do. The alpha roll (that scruff grab and pin) is outdated for very good reasons. It is dangerous (one day the dog may decide to fight back when you bully her/him), unnecessary and teaches the dog that you should be feared. I used this stupid technique more than 20 years ago and it really screwed up my relationship with my dog.

You want your dog to see you as a fair, kind and consistent leader. This is especially important for a fearful dog like your Shasta. She already has trouble trusting people (hence her defensive behavior) and this just reinforces her thinking that people are crazy and unpredictable.

08-30-2010, 12:29 AM	#1 (permalink)
Emoore Crowned Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: North DFW, TX Posts: 7,612	Rolls over and latches on to my arm when I grab his collar? Wondering if any of you guys have seen this behavior. Whenever I grab my new foster's collar, he rolls over on his back and then grabs my arm in his jaws. It's not a bite but it's a pretty hard grab-- no blood but it definitely leaves marks. He's a year or so old. If I'm trying to get him to go out or into his crate, he just lays there and I have to drag him around with my arm in his mouth. Any idea what's causing this and what I can do about it? He can't go to an adoptive home like this-- somebody will say "dog bite" so fast he'll never know what hit him. __________________ Rocky- 10 year old old boss of everyone Kopper- 1 year old DDR 'gility dawg At the Bridge: Cashdog 2006-2010

08-30-2010, 01:12 AM	#2 (permalink)
Elaine Crowned Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,543	I have had fosters do this and it's avoidance behavior on their part. They have learned that by putting up refusing to move and threatening to bite, they can get away with whatever they want. I don't put up with it and the first time a foster tries this on me, is the last time. They quickly find themselves moved to wherever I want them to be and shaken and yelled at for grabbing my arm. They have had a lot of success in intimidating people and finding themselves on the receiving end is a huge wake up call for them. As soon as they let go and get on their feet, they are promptly praised. It doesn't take long before they decide which is the better behavior. __________________ Elaine and the herd

08-30-2010, 02:25 AM	#9 (permalink)
BowWowMeow Crowned Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 14,521	I would be very cautious about getting all agro (as Elaine describes) on a dog who's exhibiting this behavior ESPECIALLY if the dog is 1.) a rescue with an unknown past or 2) a puppy. For a rescue it could be very dangerous (as in you don't want the grab to turn into a real bite) and for a puppy it really isn't necessary. If I had a problem like this I would stop grabbing the dog's collar. If it's a puppy then I'd find a different way to train the behavior I want, step up the NILIF and daily training and then use positive reinforcement to condition the dog to happily accept a collar grab. For a rescue I'd figure out a different way to move the dog around (like throwing something irresistible into the crate at every chance possible (not just when you're leaving, putting the dog away, etc.). Then I'd use positive reinforcement (clicker training is a great one here) and very slowly teach them that touching their collar is a good thing. __________________ Ruth & the 4 Legged Rescue Gang Rafi the malaroo http://www.dogster.com/dogs/693238 ....In my heart: Cleo Kitty Chama Kai Basu Massie, 1987-1999

08-30-2010, 01:15 AM	#3 (permalink)
KZoppa Crowned Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Maryland kinda missing CO Posts: 12,848	Thanks Elaine as this actually helps me with an idea for correcting this behavior in my puppy. She's quickly learning she cant do what she wants whenever she wants and she's recently started doing the same thing with myself and my husband and its gotta stop because my 2 year old daughter helps us a great with the dogs as well so when its meal time or crate time. I know she's just being a puppy but the fact remains, its a no-no.

08-30-2010, 01:53 AM	#4 (permalink)
patti Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: west Texas Posts: 169	I hate to admit, but Bo has tried this too. He doesn't get away with it, so I can't remember the last time he has tried it.

08-30-2010, 02:17 AM	#6 (permalink)
KZoppa Crowned Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Maryland kinda missing CO Posts: 12,848	I used the tethering method on her for a couple hours so when she didnt want to go on her own where she was supposed to go, she didnt have a choice and got dragged. And i've had to pin her a couple times using her scruff which she was NOT happy about one bit. She screamed and hollared like i was killing her. Told her i wasnt falling for it and she just stopped all her carrying on. But after a couple times of her trying to "bite" me away and being pinned and me literally yelping like another dog would, she started to get the idea. And every time she would do it, she'd get a crate door closed time out for about 5 minutes. and we'd try again. Well the shaking and yelling mentioned above actually makes some sense to because if its a negative experience and loud at that, they're not real likely to do it again but they'll also forgive pretty quick only this time they know whats allowed and whats not. make sense? i'm tired so i may just be rambling.

08-30-2010, 02:19 AM	#7 (permalink)
KZoppa Crowned Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Maryland kinda missing CO Posts: 12,848	another thing my Shasta has learned.... i'm a lot faster than she thinks i am. she'll go for one arm and i'll use my other hand to grab her scruff and pin her down or direct her where i want her to go so either way she isn't doing what SHE wants to do.

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