Alpharoll by mistake?

[gsdraven]

Originally Posted by Jelpy

I was concerned because it was sounding as if any time you were leaning over your dog it could be considered an alpha roll and trigger an attack.

Do you have a link to the article? It sounds a little exaggerated. Leaning over a dog is considered an act of trying to dominate but with most pets, it isn't a reason to be concerned. I would never do it to a strange dog that you do not know but is certainly ok with Lycan who you know accepts it and doesn't see it as a challenge.

[Jelpy]

I can link to the page:

Leerburg | Dog Bites and Dog Attacks
Note - there are some graphic photos in this article
Jean, Admin

There's a whole slew of emails about dog bites and they respond to the letter they get.

Jelpy

[cshepherd9]

Originally Posted by Jelpy

Thanks for the feedback. I was concerned because it was sounding as if any time you were leaning over your dog it could be considered an alpha roll and trigger an attack. It didn't SEEM like that would be an issue-Lycan is such a clown, he flops over like a sack of potatos at the drop of a hat and he loves to be played with. Um...(scuff scuff) I know the blowing raspberries on his tummy sounds silly but he really loves it.

Jelpy

I can literally lay on top of my 7 yr old dog while she is on her back with her legs in the air. Often, if I am laying on the floor, she will let me lay my head on her chest and rub her belly. I don't look at it as me trying to dominate her, I see it as she trusts me and knows nothing bad is going to happen to her if she is in that position.

[Whiteshepherds]

Why is it that most people who use examples of wolves in the wild to explain their training techniques (alpha roll) almost always mention that they also use prongs, shock collars etc?

To treat a dog like a wolf may or may not make sense, but if that's the choice people make I would think they would be more intuned to all the dynamics of a wolf pack....and amazingly....

The alpha in a wolf pack hardly ever resorts to putting shock collars on his pack. Oh sure maybe he'll think about buying a shock collar while he's at the wolf supply house, but then he remembers he doesn't have thumbs so signing the credit card bill becomes an issue. He must alas, resort to the alpha roll. No prongs, no leash pops, no shock collars....go figure.

I'm thinking gently flipping a puppy over and giving it raspberries on it's belly is probably more wolf like than pop, shock and roll methods. Just a thought.

[Jelpy]

Originally Posted by Whiteshepherds

The alpha in a wolf pack hardly ever resorts to putting shock collars on his pack. Oh sure maybe he'll think about buying a shock collar while he's at the wolf supply house, but then he remembers he doesn't have thumbs so signing the credit card bill becomes an issue. He must alas, resort to the alpha roll. No prongs, no leash pops, no shock collars....go figure.

jelpy

[Lilie]

Originally Posted by Whiteshepherds

....

The alpha in a wolf pack hardly ever resorts to putting shock collars on his pack. Oh sure maybe he'll think about buying a shock collar while he's at the wolf supply house, but then he remembers he doesn't have thumbs so signing the credit card bill becomes an issue. He must alas, resort to the alpha roll. No prongs, no leash pops, no shock collars....go figure.

Ok, here I am at work, being a little sneaky and reading through this thread and then....BAM! I bust out laughing out loud and blow my entire cover....

[selzer]

Jelpy, please continue to have fun with your pup in ANY way that the two of you continue to enjoy. I love your word picture.

Leaning over a dog could be a dominant position, but socialize your puppy to accept ANYTHING from you -- sounds like you have started already. I can play with my dogs feet, or tail, or ears, or any other part of their body. Yesterday at class Babsy scootched over and pulled something off the ground and was eating it, I went inside her mouth and pulled out a beggin strip, I looked at it, and as it is at the home of a good friend and trainer, I gave it back to Babsy -- not worried that it was tainted in any way. However your dog's disposition is, you should be allowed to do anything with them.

Doggone. I could alpha roll any of my dogs. I never have. Why? Because I am not a dog or a wolf or a coyote and my dogs are smart enough to know that. I do not want to be alpha. The alpha pack member can be ousted out of the position when they are old or weak or sick. Since I am getting pretty close to that, I'd rather not rule my dogs by brute force, especially since it is entirely unnecessary.

[onyx'girl]

Originally Posted by DogGone

You’re in denial. If you don’t salute properly people can get injured also. If you snap to salute and you’re not a proper distance away from someone you could poke the person you are saluting in the eye or yourself in the eye. But that doesn’t mean that saluting is inherently dangerous.
　
I think things need to be kept in perspective and that all angles should be taken into consideration. Analogy. Regulators think that requiring airliners and airline passengers to keep babies in safety seats increases safety. In shallow analysis of the statistics when you’re in an airplane crash the survival rate is better with the safety seat. However with deeper analysis requiring airliners and airline passengers to keep babies in safety seats would actually likely increase the number of injuries and deaths. You have to analyze and consider all of the causes and effects. The increased costs to airline passengers they would have to pay for extra seats for their infants would be cost prohibitive for many people; so many parents would end up traveling in a less safe method; such as by automobile, bus or train; where injury and fatality is more likely. So legislation that is under the guise of improving safety; is likely to decrease public safety.
　
I’ve heard many people claim that they don’t need to Alpha roll their dog. However the vast majority of them are unruly and unsafe and dangerous. Not all dogs are the same so not all dogs require the same type of training and discipline. I think you are likely to be like many others and are simply in denial.
　
I’ve had many idiots in denial, lecture me about using alpha rolls, and the use of shock collars. Yet my dog is relatively obedient, intelligent, mentally stable, friendly, and brave; yet their dogs are food/water/toy aggressive, run away, disobedient, fearful, dominant, runs out in traffic, chases traffic and pedestrians, chases animals without permission, etc…. Yet almost every time their dog is getting into trouble they blame someone else instead of their dog and themselves. These idiots like to make up stupid rules; like balls and Frisbees shouldn’t be at the dog park; dogs shouldn’t run, bark and wrestle at a dog park. They insist that no other dogs go near their dog when their dog is drinking; because they allow their dog to be water aggressive; since they are denial they tried to shift the blame onto other people so it’s your fault if their dog becomes water aggressive. These types of people are nurturing bad behavior and are enabling dangerous situations.

the OP was talking about blowing rasberries on the pups belly.
Doggone, you sure do like to go off on a tangent. Would an alpha roll fix the issues many dogs have, I doubt it....
I am not in denial, not an idiot, don't shift blame and don't enable.
My dogs are very happy and get along fine within their pack.
I don't go to dog parks because of what you decribed above, not worth the hassle to encounter those situations.
I'd type more to your wonderful diatribe, but the board rules state we shouldn't be distrespectful to other posters.

[selzer]

Quote by DogGone: "I’ve heard many people claim that they don’t need to Alpha roll their dog. However the vast majority of them are unruly and unsafe and dangerous. Not all dogs are the same so not all dogs require the same type of training and discipline. I think you are likely to be like many others and are simply in denial.
　
I’ve had many idiots in denial, lecture me about using alpha rolls, and the use of shock collars. Yet my dog is relatively obedient, intelligent, mentally stable, friendly, and brave; yet their dogs are food/water/toy aggressive, run away, disobedient, fearful, dominant, runs out in traffic, chases traffic and pedestrians, chases animals without permission, etc…. Yet almost every time their dog is getting into trouble they blame someone else instead of their dog and themselves. These idiots like to make up stupid rules; like balls and Frisbees shouldn’t be at the dog park; dogs shouldn’t run, bark and wrestle at a dog park. They insist that no other dogs go near their dog when their dog is drinking; because they allow their dog to be water aggressive; since they are denial they tried to shift the blame onto other people so it’s your fault if their dog becomes water aggressive. These types of people are nurturing bad behavior and are enabling dangerous situations."

Ever think that maybe your dog is "relatively obedient, intelligent, mentally stable, friendly, and brave" inspite of poor training methods. Not everyone who does not use shock collars or alpha rolls have dogs that are "food/water/toy aggressive, run away, disobedient, fearful, dominant, runs out in traffic, chases traffic and pedestrians, chases animals without permission, etc…."

I think that dogs have different levels of temperament, some have serious issues, others require different management, but to suggest that people who use positive reinforcement and training techniques that do not include physically challenging and overpowering the dog or aids in correcting/punishing the dog, are in denial and have dogs that have serious issues is just wrong.

People who use any method of training can screw that method up, whether the method includes shocking or alpha rolling, or clickers, or praise and treats. So some people trying to do positive reinforcement mess that up, just as people who use alpha rolls mess that up. It has something to do with the handler's ability to do the right thing and the right time, their patience, their persistance.

[Jelpy]

well, to clear up one thing: I was semi worried because Lycan is 2 1/2 years old and tips the scale at about 90 pounds now that he's on a raw diet. He's still very puppy like, though. Well, puppy like if the puppy was 2 1/2 years old with big clown feet.

jelpy