he growls & is afraid of everyone but us

[Riley's Mom]

Hi there,

We had to stop over at the Humane Society earlier this week to pick up the pizzas I ordered for their fundraiser. Of course I can't go to the HS w/o looking at the dogs! I mean that would just not be right, ya know?

In the company of one of the employees, I made my way down the line saying hi to them all (wish I'd thought to bring some treats). When I got oh about 10ft from the last cage I heard growling and I could make out a medium sized brown dog. It wasn't a hugely scary growl, but it was definitely a "keep away from me" growl.

I moved a little closer while talking to the employee and saw a very pretty shades of chocolate browns brindle Pit Bull with an ADORABLE face! Then I was REALLY mad at myself for not bringing treats. But the employee went and got me 2-3 dog treats resembling sugar cookies w/o the sugar.

While she was getting the treats, I stood next to the cage sideways talking to the little guy, he kept growling and I just stood there and bent forward always facing sideways talking to him. She brought me the treats and I broke off small pieces and gently passed them to him thru the cage wire. He was wary but he finally took it and stopped growling at me, too. The employee's eyes got really big and she said "He's NEVER stopped growling with any human until now." Well, that made me feel pretty darn good and that was also about the same time he moved from the corner he'd been sitting in over to being in front of me and appeared to be trying to get my attention and have me look at him, so I figured it was ok to do that now that we'd made friends. I was right, he was fine with eye contact from me then.

They figure he's about a year & a half old, looked healthy and the person that brought him in, said he was taking care of him for a friend that never came back to get him and that he couldn't keep him. Not sure I believe that but that's what they got for a story. He was not up for adoption because they had to neuter/temp test him yet.

Not hard to see the little guy doesn't trust people and is really scared. I went to get hubby so he could see this cutie and the PB did the same thing, growled at hubby but I had a few treats left and he did the same thing I did and all was fine after a couple of minutes. The shelter employee was pretty surprised to see him react friendly towards us.

I'm not a PB person and honestly speaking I'm usually afraid of PB's (I know I know but it's just a fear I hadn't conquered yet). But this little guy is so darn cute and he's tugging at my heart. We know how hard it is to find homes for PB's. We DON'T need another dog, but I keep thinking this one doesn't take up as much room as a GSD - he's only about half the size and at a year and a half, he's not gonna get any bigger. He probably won't eat as much .. right? I can't believe I'm even seriously considering a third dog and more importantly a PB when I've managed to successfully talk sense into myself over a third GSD so far.

Hubby fell for him, too. Said if there's nobody to adopt him and his only option is to euth him we're going to adopt him. I'm thnking of running over there for a little bit today and visit him. I wanted to take him for a little walk when we first met him but they wouldn't let us cuz he hadn't been temp tested yet.

So, my question is --- and I want honest answers --- not what you think I wanna hear. Am I making to much out of the fact that he stopped growling with us and he didn't w/other people? Like is this some kind of sign that I should get real serious about adopting him or is it just my ego talking?

[debbiebrown]

i certainly respect you for considering a dog like this. its a big commitment to take a dog like this..........you just don't know how the dog will be until you get it home in your inviroment. things can certainly come out as you go along.......

the growling does say he is fearful/unsure, and dealing with any dog like this is alot of dedication. maybe the dog hasn't been given a chance to trust people, hasn't had the right exposure...but outwardly showing these signs still can be a liability since you just don't know how he'll progress..........

it does sound like you have a good concept in dealing with this judging by how you interacted with him in the first place.

i would suggest spending time with him at the place, maybe at some point take him for a walk, and interact in more ways with him at the shelter.........then you can make a better decision....

debbie

[MustLoveGSDs]

This is just from my personal experience so please don't take offense to it.

We just had to have our pit bull PTS for human aggression issues, we adopted her from the shelter and honestly I will never do that again with a pit bull since any form of HA is a big no-no and red flag with the breed. BF and I definitely want pit bulls in the future but from now on we are going to adopt through a rescue where the dog has been in foster care for a while so we know exactly what we are getting. We can't manage a life around a HA pit bull, we know our limitations, so adopting one from a shelter is too big of a gamble..not saying it won't work for you guys, that kind of heartache and stress is just not something I want to deal with again or would wish upon anyone. It was suggested that I could keep a muzzle on her in public at all times but that is not how the public needs to view pit bulls when they already have this huge negative and fearful perception of them.

There are TONS of pit bulls with bomb-proof and stellar personalities with people out there waiting for homes, I personally would skip this dog if it was already growling off the bat. Pit Bulls should be friendly to people even in shelter and high-stress environments. I have met plenty in shelters that just wanted to jump at the bars and lick me. Since you are already somewhat scared of the breed, I wouldn't start out with the one you guys are looking at. It would be horrible for something bad to happen and it only put more fear into you about them. Pit Bulls are awesome dogs, ours was incredibly smart and very eager to learn..I had a blast training her, she made us fall in love with the breed and BF and I agreed we will always want one. The ignorance you would have to deal with though is insane. Our husky and GSD wouldn't get second glances but boy howdy would we get some mean muggin and ridiculous comments about our pittie. We only had her for 3 months and I could tell you some stories.

From pbrc.net:
Traits like human aggression, severe shyness, and instability are not typically found in the APBT breed, nor are they acceptable. Dogs with these traits are not good representatives of the breed and should not be placed into adoptive homes. The only "guard dog" qualities of a pit bull are its formidable appearance and its name. Other than that, they are not very good at this job. Pit bulls were not created to perform the task of protecting someone's home or property. In many cases pit bulls are just too friendly with people to be good at this. They may bark and "look" scary, but as soon as the intruder smiles at them, most pit bulls think they have made a new friend!

from badrap.org:
Any pit bull that demonstrates unworkable aggression towards people is revealing a substandard temperament and may need to be humanely euthanized. Any sign of aggression towards humans is a major red flag and should be dealt with immediately. Dogs that show an inability to improve should be safeguarded from the public or humanely euthanized.

realpitbull.com:
Aggression towards humans should be viewed as a serious fault. The Pit Bull is a
very friendly, stable breed. Although in recent years some individuals
have misused the breed and the media have misrepresented it, aggression
towards humans never was and still isn't what the Pit Bull is about.
Aggression directed at humans is a serious matter, and not something
that should be taken lightly.

[Strana1]

I also respect you for considering the difficult dog and agree with debbieb's post. I understand how you want to help this poor soul, but there are many posts in this forum about taking your time picking the right GSD (whether from a breeder or rescue), do your research and take a step back and look at the total picture.

I don't have any idea what your doggy background is so take this with a grain of salt

You should consider how he will be with your two dogs and if you have the ability to keep them seperate if they don't get along. I have three dogs now and keep a crate open for a foster and know first hand how difficult it can be if they don't get along.


Also keep in mind that his behavior will likely change after you get him home and he settles in. (here's an article my trainer wrote about it when she was the trainer at Doberman Rescue Unlimited, <span style="color: #3366FF">The Behavioral Bends</span> )

Also please take into consideration that so far he has been showing a lot of fear, and it may be enviormental, or it maybe why he is there in the first place. He may have been dumped for agression or even a bite (you said you didn't beleive the story form the person who dropped him off).

If you decide that he is the right dog for you and you adopt him, think about what you will do if it "all goes wrong". I don't know if you work with a trainer or not, but if you do you may want to talk to them about it as well.


I have limited expierence with PBs, but the ones I have met at my trainers have been very intellegent and very determined. I think they are a breed, like the GSD that takes a lot of knowledge and understanding.

Good luck in whatever your descision is.

[Strana1]

I was typing my reply when MustLoveGSDs was posting and think it is a very wise post from someone with breed experience.

[MustLoveGSDs]

Strana you make a very good point about the dog issue, I forgot to mention that. Pit Bull Terriers as a breed are very prone to some levels of dog aggression. You can manage it, but you can't really breed that trait out of them..it's akin to border collies herding and shepherds protecting, it's just what they do and how they are. Our PB had been cooped up in the shelter for 3 months before we adopted her and had horrible social skills with dogs. We had to do very slow and tedious introductions over the period of a few weeks with our 2 resident dogs because there were fights nearly every day when we first brought her in. We had to crate and rotate and do very short leash greetings on neutral territory, but luckily in the end our hard work payed off and the dogs all became best buds. However, with shelter dogs you never know. We weren't allowed to bring our dogs to meet the PB so we took a huge gamble. You have to be prepared to possibly crate and rotate because there is a very good chance a pit bull will be DA. And never trust a pit bull not to fight. They might not start it but they will finish it.

[Riley's Mom]

WOW MustLoveGSDs ... I really appreciate all the info and I will think about this more seriously before taking any adoption steps. I'm currently thinking of this poor thing as having some reason to be afraid of people and that's why he growls. He needs to learn that not all humans are to be feared and that we won't hurt him. I got the gut feeling that it's a matter of building his confidence and giving him a little time in a real home where he is cared about. Maybe I'm living in fantasy land.

I have a friend who recently adopted a PB and after meeting this pretty little gal my fear of the breed diminished quite a bit. I can't say it's gone because I think if this guy were bigger (he looks like he's maybe only about 30lbs) I might very well be afraid of him, but I wasn't at all. At least I didn't feel afraid. My friend's PB is a small one, too.

I do understand the negativity issue, I get that with my GSD's but I would imagine it would be moreso w/a PB and that's fine, I won't like it but I'm not going to let it bother me to the point of it being a problem for me. Once it awhile it bothers me that people are afraid of my 2 GSD's but it's usually a fleeting moment kind of thing.

I think what I would do IF we decide to move forward in ANY way with this guy, would be to see if we could try a foster situation and that way if we have any inkling at all that we have a bigger problem than what it looks like we'd have, we can take him back to the shelter instead of having to try to find a home for him ourselves. Kind of like a built-in security blanket.

But even before that, I think I'll go spend a little time w/him at the HS and see how that goes. I won't take my GSD's just me and some treats and maybe they've temp tested him and know more about him now, too. I would like to take him for a little walk and sit on the floor with him and see how he reacts to me OUTSIDE the cage - some of this could be fence aggression, too, is what I'm thinking.

He's been (supposedly) tossed from home to a "dog sitter's" and from there to a shelter where there's all kinds of dogs barking and he's scared being in a new place and all of that. So, he's been emotionally abused and/or neglected or ignored at the very least. I'd like to see what he's like outside the cage and see what the shelter folks have to say now that he's been there a week or more and they've had a chance to interact w/him to some degree anyway.

I definitely don't want to have to deal with an aggressive dog ... I just think there's a big chance that his growling is because he's scared and that once he learns he doesn't need to be scared he might just be ok .... so maybe that's a long shot and wishful thinking.

A huge chunk of any decision here is how Riley would get along with him. I do definitely worry this little guy doesn't stand a chance if Riley doesn't like him - he's only about half Riley's size.

[MustLoveGSDs]

I think that is very wise about wanting to foster first. I wish we would have done that with ours. I have never had to put a young, healthy dog to sleep before and it was extremely painful and depressing. She was only 1 or so. The vet actually bullied us out of euthanizing her the first time around and was very rude and condescending, she said we should stick to labs and golden retrievers (yeah because labs and goldens are never human aggressive and are perfect angels and it is totally our fault that our pit happened to be HA *eye roll*). The vet had me contact a client of hers who she said could handle a HA pit bull so we handed her over. Well sure enough we got a call saying our dog needed to be PTS which we knew all along.

Just a suggestion but maybe you can check around with local rescues and see if any experienced PB people, trainers, or behaviorists can come out with you to the shelter and give the dog a good assessment and evaluation.


It was so funny but sad when we brought a pit bull into our lives because she made our big, bad, black, scary looking GSD look like an angel to the public when both of them were out. You've got to have a thick skin to own pit bulls because you will be on the receiving end of some very ignorant and ahole people with major negative and hateful attitudes and opinions of pit bulls. If you like to educate though and stand up for "dangerous" breeds then you will have a blast with it. Our pit was slender and small, but she was 64 lbs of pure muscle. I was shocked the first time we had her weighed, lol. VERY strong dog. We got her into obedience class asap.

[MustLoveGSDs]

Riley's Mom I also sent you a PM

[Riley's Mom]

Originally Posted By: MustLoveGSDsStrana you make a very good point about the dog issue, I forgot to mention that. Pit Bull Terriers as a breed are very prone to some levels of dog aggression. You can manage it, but you can't really breed that trait out of them..it's akin to border collies herding and shepherds protecting, it's just what they do and how they are. &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; snippp &lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt; there is a very good chance a pit bull will be DA. And never trust a pit bull not to fight. They might not start it but they will finish it.

Ok ... this is scary. People all over the US are bending over backwards and turning themselves into the shape of a pretzel trying to clean up the PB's bad rap and so I never expected this to be part of their personality.

I believe one should never trust ANY dog not to fight. I don't even trust my own two to never fight amongst themselves. This is one main reason I don't allow mine free roam of the house when I'm sleeping or gone, they're crated seperately. So, are we talking the PB would be a bigger worry than this as far as fighting?