MA: New Subj Line Male Fritz special needs (will stay with owner) - German Shepherd Dog Forums

Increase font size: 0, 10, 25, 50%

GermanShepherds.com is the premier German Shepherd Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01-07-2013, 01:42 PM   #1 (permalink)
Master Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Ma.
Posts: 749
Default MA: New Subj Line Male Fritz special needs (will stay with owner)

Our 97 pound 3 year old New Skete Shepherd bit a visitor in our yard on Friday night. Here's the e-mail I sent to the Monks of New Skete about which they met and gave us their advice this morning to euthanize;

Good afternoon Brothers;

Sorry about this development,very sad and disappointing time here. Fritz has grown up to be a 97 pound lovable,playful companion with serious issues that have been present since the first day we brought him home. On day 1 at 8 weeks old he showed that he would charge people,barking uncontrollably with hair raised like I've never seen before. He also showed himself to be a submissive urinator. Both behaviors continue. We contacted Julia and Br Christopher at 4 months old after attempting to get help with a local trainer/behaviorist who schooled us in use of a dogtra. Br Christopher spoke to me at length and referred me to another behaviorist near me (Cavalleto Canine).Of course in that public square evaluation,Fritz showed nothing of his natural tendencies. I gathered as much info as I could through books and other GSD breeders throughout the country. Fritz is a very weak nerved GSD who is extremely overreactive to non threatening stimuli. He is like a maniac with his barking when most people come to the door or the backyard fence. He will charge if not held in a down stay with verbal and dogtra control. He will not settle down until he gets to sniff the person and it doesn't matter how familiar that person is. At night if the family comes home in the dark,he will charge out the front door at whoever he can't recognize. Verbal scoldings or what he deems rough handling by the collar or physical blocking will result in weeks of submissive urination when approached to give affection or collar for a walk. Head down,body crouched.ears pinned. Very sensitive.
We walk and ballplay Fritz twice every single day in the local parks and bogs for approx 2 hours,sometimes more. Another dog accompanies us 75% of the time and he loves him. Other dogs he will challenge every time we see them til Fritz feels comfortable. Have to be very careful with dog introductions,though he has been significantly socialized. In the couple of occasions when his challenge has escalated,he will back down as soon as the other dog gives it back. He is non confrontational when competing for a toy or ball.

On Friday night January 1st we planned a backyard party for the opening of our backyard skating rink. We expected about 10 kids and 4 adults and it was semi lighted out back. 5 kids showed up early and Fritz went through the usual routine,barking like crazy til he got to sniff each kid. When they got dressed to go outside Fritz got frantic because he loves to go out with kids and just be with them. We went on the ice (Fritz is trained to stay off). He was highly stimulated,whining and running back and forth with a toy. I put him in a down at least 5 times and he just would lay there and whine and whine and when it got the better of him he would go back to running back and forth,repeat the process. After about 45 minutes of this,more people arrived and I was on the ice so a neighbor that Fritz is very friendly with had him in a down stay with me watching and he saw me. The woman who arrived came through the gate and spoke to my wife,Fritz is turned in the opposite direction 8 feet away,straining to see and whining. The woman then turned to leave and walked 5 feet and I saw Fritz suddenly jump to his feet,run at the woman in a crouched position extremely aggressively as if she were prey. He grabbed her by the upper back leg and shook his head,taking out one chunk of skin and ripping her pants to shreds. It lasted no more than a second as he was grabbed by my wife and dragged against his will inside the house.

With his temperament it finally appears he cannot be controlled by us beyond any mistakes in a household where kids and their parents regularly visit. Looking back,it's clear to us that he somehow fooled your puppy testers and socializers. I don't know how that happened as he showed very weak nerves from the very first day. Not the cuddly warm puppy,passersby could greet or pat.
lrodptl is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 01-07-2013, 01:47 PM   #2 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
Jax08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NNE PA
Posts: 21,782
Default

It sounds like his frustration level was thru the roof and that caused him to rush the woman. Who advised you to put him down? New Skete? Can I ask why you didn't put him in a crate when it was obvious the excitement was to much for him? And Nooooo...I am not blaming you for the bite but as a third party, I see an array of things I would have done differently after years of living with a human aggressive dog.
__________________
Jax
Seger vom Sitz von der Hose

Forever loved and missed.....Banshee

~The strength of one's opinion should not exceed their knowledge on the matter~
Jax08 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-07-2013, 01:58 PM   #3 (permalink)
Master Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Ma.
Posts: 749
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jax08 View Post
It sounds like his frustration level was thru the roof and that caused him to rush the woman. Who advised you to put him down? New Skete? Can I ask why you didn't put him in a crate when it was obvious the excitement was to much for him? And Nooooo...I am not blaming you for the bite but as a third party, I see an array of things I would have done differently after years of living with a human aggressive dog.
The Monks met this morning and called us at 10AM.Not going to go through the mistakes we've made. The dog will not be staying.
lrodptl is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-07-2013, 02:02 PM   #4 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
Jax08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NNE PA
Posts: 21,782
Default

ok. I guess I'm not sure what you are expecting for responses? I thought you were looking for an "eval" of what you could possibly do and didn't understand you had already made the decision to follow through with that recommendation. I apologize for the misunderstanding.
__________________
Jax
Seger vom Sitz von der Hose

Forever loved and missed.....Banshee

~The strength of one's opinion should not exceed their knowledge on the matter~
Jax08 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-07-2013, 02:06 PM   #5 (permalink)
Elite Member
 
Capone22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,235
Default

He should never have been made to stay there in a down stay when CLEARLY he was stressed. This was human error. You knew your dog was weak nerves. You knew didn't react appropriately to anyone coming over, even ones he knows. Yet you put him in a situation far beyond what he could handle, and then act surprised he bit?! That was a lot to take in even for a solid nerve dog.


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App
Capone22 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-07-2013, 02:12 PM   #6 (permalink)
The Rescues Rule Administrator
 
JeanKBBMMMAAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 23,695
Default

I moved this from Urgent Rescue to the aggression section - I am not sure of the help you are asking for?

If you are going to try to adopt Fritz out, click notify, and this will be moved to the non-urgent section.
__________________
IMOM is...
JeanKBBMMMAAN is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-07-2013, 02:15 PM   #7 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Beautiful Pacific NW
Posts: 11,005
Default

I have to say the same...there's not a lot of our dogs we'd have dragged out to a situation like this, and none of ours has a history of human aggression.

Quote:
He will charge if not held in a down stay with verbal and dogtra control.
Are you shocking the dog to keep him in place? Just curious how the e-collar is used in this instance.
msvette2u is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-07-2013, 02:22 PM   #8 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
Shade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Ottawa, ON
Posts: 6,823
Default

It sounds like fear aggression more then anything, very weak nerves in a busy setting

I hope either the breeder is taking him back, or he's finding another home . With work and in a different setting he might be fine. But if he's truly that far gone euthanization might be the kindest thing
__________________
Shanna

My Pack:

Jasmine - Female Miniature Poodle - born Aug 15, 2010
Loker Delgado Von Stalworth - Male GSD - born Jan 26, 2012
Koda & Zazu - 5 year old male cats
Alex - Male Cocker Spaniel (rescue) - RIP Cuddlebug 2007-2010
Shade is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-07-2013, 02:23 PM   #9 (permalink)
Knighted Member
 
GatorBytes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Southern Ontario
Posts: 3,207
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lrodptl View Post
The Monks met this morning and called us at 10AM.Not going to go through the mistakes we've made. The dog will not be staying.
Maybe this should be in the preparing to say goodbye forum...

A stressed and/or weak nerved dog is also dealing with stress hormones. This may also be an adrenal gland/endocrine disorder concurrent with behavioural...people suffer from stress and lash out...moments of weakness, outbursts violent tendencies are in the now...they happen without thought....with time to think, breathing before reacting is something humans can do by choice with the tools and knowledge on how to reduce anxiety...dogs cannot comprehend and say...o.k. breath in count 12345 and exhale12345678...however, herbs and other suppliments can help...ashwagandha, melatonin, st. johns wort, valerian root...if these things had been incorporated during training the end result may have been a better balanced dog.
__________________
He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion. - Unknown

Last edited by GatorBytes; 01-07-2013 at 02:26 PM.
GatorBytes is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-07-2013, 02:34 PM   #10 (permalink)
Master Member
 
FrankieC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 608
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jax08 View Post
ok. I guess I'm not sure what you are expecting for responses? I thought you were looking for an "eval" of what you could possibly do and didn't understand you had already made the decision to follow through with that recommendation. I apologize for the misunderstanding.
I'm a bit confused myself. The first word in the subject is "HELP!"
__________________
GSD Kira GSD Riley
North Trail Sports
FrankieC is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the German Shepherd Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:15 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.3.2
PetGuide.com
Basset.net DobermanTalk.com GoldenRetrieverForum.com OurBeagleWorld.com
BoxerForums.com DogForums.com GoPitbull.com PoodleForum.com
BulldogBreeds.com FishForums.com HavaneseForum.com SpoiledMaltese.com
CatForum.com GermanShepherds.com Labradoodle-dogs.net YorkieForum.com
Chihuahua-People.com RetrieverBreeds.com