Howell, MI Tag2010-938 Adult m, new home

[mazza]

People like you restore my ever fading faith in man kind, wow what a special one you are. Congrats to you and ESPECIALLY to Charlie!!

[kess&ellie]

Oh how I wish I was that special one, but I'm not.

Charlie is not working out here with me and my dogs like I had hoped and expected, and he needs to find another home.

He is dog aggressive.

When I first got him home things were great but after a few days he started to show some dominant/aggressive behavior that is now forcing me to make this decision. I feel he would be better suited to a home without dogs/small children or somebody with more expertise than I have for dealing with these issues.

When I saw him at animal control I was told that he was the shelter favourite and such a lovely, quiet dog. They all liked him. He showed no interest in the other dogs there and was very quiet and laid back. He showed no interest at all in Koda when I took him in there and I really thought he would fit well.

I don't have much time to find him a home now either. I am leaving September 1st for 2 weeks and will not leave him here with my two dogs while expecting my sons to watch over them. I have checked with a local humane society who won't take a dog his age, and I've called a couple of rescue groups (one GSD, one all-breed) who are full. No surprise there. With his history, though, I don't know that they would take him anyway.

He is fully vetted and good until this time next year. (He actually gets his lepto booster on Wednesday)
He's heartworm negative and on preventative.
His senior bloodwork, urinalysis came back normal

Is there ANYONE out there that can take Charlie? He's a very sweet dog but needs the right home, and he's running out of time.

Thank you.

[BlackPuppy]

Poor Charlie, he's so beautiful. Could his problem be because of pain and old age? You know how old dogs don't want to be bothered.

[kess&ellie]

Bump for Charlie. He needs a home!

[katieliz]

carole i wondered the same thing, if he could just be confused from the loss of his people and the hectic shelter life, in some pain from his neuter, and just having adjustment problems because he's an older guy. i'm hoping that's the case and that he's not truly dog aggressive.

i'm also hoping thru the non-urgent section here we can work towards finding a quiet place for charlie to spend his golden years.

[Anja1Blue]

Originally Posted by katieliz

carole i wondered the same thing, if he could just be confused from the loss of his people and the hectic shelter life, in some pain from his neuter, and just having adjustment problems because he's an older guy. i'm hoping that's the case and that he's not truly dog aggressive.

i'm also hoping thru the non-urgent section here we can work towards finding a quiet place for charlie to spend his golden years.

I think all of the above probably apply. It takes a long time for some dogs to adjust (at least 6 months in my experience) and he has had a lot of upheaval in a short time. I'd separate him for now and just let him have his own time and space - I'm assuming he is crate trained. He's old and his life has changed for ever - you did a great thing by taking him, but he might just be overwhelmed by it all.
________________________________________
Susan

Anja SchH3 GSD
Conor GSD
Blue BH WH T1 GSD - waiting at the Bridge

[katieliz]

back to the top of the non-urgent section for charlie. i'm hoping to be able to meet him towards the end of the week. although i simply cannot take him myself i'd like to help with contacts to get him some exposure on several michigan rescue petfinder sites, and do some really special pictures to post there. in the meantime, we'll keep him up top here...and if anyone would like more info about this dear older boy who would likely* do better without other doggies in his family (tho i've heard he lived with a cat), you can pm his adoptive/now foster "mum" (kess&ellie), or me.

*my feeling is that it may be a bit early in his adjustment from shelter life and neuter surgery to firmly label him dog aggressive, but anyone who would be considering him should be an experienced shepherd owner, willing to proceed very slowly and carefully with any exposure to another dog, and ultimately able to segregate complelely if necessary.

[RunShepherdRun]

Hm, based on the available information, I’d also be cautious about calling him 'dog aggressive'. He had been appropriate with your male dog and with other dogs at the shelter, and that matters. Matters even if things are not going well in the new home, and he is not a good fit there. Few GSDs are instantly good with all other dogs in all situations, and step by step introductions can tell us much about what home works for a dog and what not.

Here's a list of some situations where a general category 'dog aggressive' would not tell us all that much:

There are dogs that do very well with dogs of the opposite sex only. How has Charlie been with your female dog?

There are dogs who do well only with other dogs if the other dogs has excellent dog skills, but not with an insecure dog.

There are dogs who do well only with other dogs of a compatible energy level, so a senior with another senior or laid back dog.

There are dogs who get along with dogs of certain sizes, only large ones or only small ones.

There are dogs who are angelical with other dogs until a bowl of food, a rawhide, or a toy is around. Has he perhaps shown resource guarding with your dogs? Is that perhaps why you wouldn't want to place him with a child?

Some dogs do well if they start out as top dog, and a dog who isn't interested in becoming top dog is introduced. But not if they have to start at the bottom of a new pack, or are matched with another top dog, or worse, with an ‘alpha wanna be’.

There are dogs who are ok with other dogs outside their home but don't want to share their home. I know one who has many doggie friends but turns into cujo when sharing the car, but he will share it happily with just two of his dog friends.

And there are dogs who are on edge and grumpy after surgery (neuter surgery in a senior male is not minor) and multiple simultaneous vaccinations (he seems to even have been given the lepto vacc). They long for a room to themselves to recover.

All of the above dogs will show dog aggression in some situations and with some dogs, but can live happily with other dogs.

Pause. And here's what I'd indeed call generally 'dog aggressive':

Some dogs who cannot even walk by another dog without going berserk. That I'd call generally 'dog aggressive'. Often this can be worked with with classical counter conditioning, to get him to ignore other dogs at least for as long as they don't come close. From your description, that does not sound like Charlie’s behavior.

And then there is a very small number of dogs that get eerily quiet and focused when they see another dog, especially a small one. And then go for an all out attack. That is severely dog aggressive.

Also, much depends on careful and slow introductions to the resident dogs at home. Like fences make good neighbors, gates and doors start good doggie relationships. And much also depends on giving privileges to the new dog slowly, to not overwhelm him with novelty.

Maybe you can describe a bit the situations and the kinds of dogs he is having issues with in your home. That might improve his chances. From what you say, he sounds like an adoptable dog, and I hope he’ll find his forever home.

[katieliz]

wow, sarah, thanks SO much for thinking of all those different ways dogs can have of interacting with other dogs. i'm looking forward to meeting charlie tomorrow evening, we'll do pictures for his petfinder listing(s), talk more about his issues, and look at all the alternatives for finding the right home for him.

[katieliz]

i met charlie last friday night, we photographed him for his petfinder listing and also to make him a blog where people might go to find out a bit more information than can be included on petfinder, and see quite a few more (and larger) pictures than are available on the pf listing. blog address is at the end of this post.

here is my assessment of charlie, and although i am not a behaviorist or a trainer, i have a lifetime of experience with shepherds.

first of all, there is a question in my mind whether charlie is indeed 11 years old. he seems more like 7-9 years old to me, if you look at the side view of him on his blog you'll see that his teeth are still quite nice. his foster mum says she's been told there is prior paperwork at a vet clinic saying he's 11 tho, and we are trying to check a bit further into this.

from the time charlie got out of his fm's truck, his overwhelming demeanor was apprehensive, but neither fearful or aggressive. charlie doesn't know what's going to happen next. at first there was even a bit of leg-shaking, but that stopped after he'd done some exploring around the fenced-in area we were in. no matter where he went to explore, he would check back visually to locate his fm, however, there was very little attention-seeking behavior, once when loose he trotted back over to her for a pat on the head and wagged his tail slightly, but for the most part he seemed to be looking around and seemed to be operating on an instinctual level. he had no interest in treats when they were given, he'd take them and then drop them, but would go back and eat them at a time of his own choosing. we wondered if he was hard of hearing, he didn't respond to his name or to the noises i was making when i photographed him, the pictures where he is alert were more the result of some exaggerated, over my head, hand motions, although after the first couple of times he stopped responding to those as well. i also wondered if he was still experiencing some level of shut-down or shelter shock when i learned he'd spent a month in the shelter after losing all that was familiar to him. some of his behaviors at his foster home have also made his fm wonder if perhaps he has been disciplined harshly in the past. the dog-specific aggression issues his fm relates all happen without seeming provocation from the other dogs, and he bites them on the back and not up around the neck, as is usually seen when dogs fight.

when his fm leashed him up to leave, it was like he suddenly came alive, and when he got in her truck he looked truly happy for the first time since he'd been at my house. i felt like he was very relieved that he was not being "left" again.

unfortunately, because of an important trip his fm has to go on, charlie is going into boarding for two weeks in september, so he will have to deal with another separation and another strange place and different surroundings once again. we've made plans for him to go to hy hopes, where the shepster did his detox from shelter life. i know he will get excellent care and lots of individual attention while he's there, the kennel is small and private and has top notch facilities. but it would sure be in charlie's best interests if a suitable permanent home would materialize before then (a tall order, i know).

i believe he is certainly adoptable to the right home, and will make someone a loyal and good companion, once he's able to experience a comfort zone, a stable routine, and some good nutrition. he's probably 15 pounds underweight and is a bit unsteady in the rear, expecially on one rear leg. i'm sure his exercise has been sporadic while he's been in the shelter.

he will need a quiet, stable home wthout children or other dogs. although i'm not convinced the dog aggression issues are unsolvable, it would take patience, dedication, and the ability and willingness to separate for life, if necessary. i do think that probably the ideal home would have no other dogs (it's said he lived and came into the shelter with a cat). vet references are a must and a fenced yard is highly preferable (some flexibility there depending on circumstances).

please pm me if you think you may have, or know of, a suitable home for charlie. he is a good boy.

CHARLIE'S STORY