Might have to give up Gunner - Owner keeping him

[Branca's Mom]

I personally don't like the collars that go up automatically. I fear that a dog could get fried before he understands how to stop it. I prefer the collars where I determine the level. I might set it on level 1 for a few days, then level 2 a couple of days then 3 etc etc. That way, long before it gets to the fried stage the dog knows full well what causes and how to stop the correction.

Bark collar may very well break the cycle and calm him down and stop the destruction. It seems to me this is what it has come to. A bark collar in this case may be a life-saver. The next people that have him might lose their temper at the destruction and barking and abuse him horribly for it or might just dump him off at the pound where the chances of him not being immediately PTS are slim. And really, what are the chances that you could even place a 7 year old dog, much less a 7 year old dog with health problems?

[JakodaCD OA]

that's good that your mom ignores him but plays with him when he stops fussing)

something branca's mom said made me want to add,,,when I use a bark collar on Jag (aussie) it also seems to , what's the word,,not chill him out but keep him from going into the "zone" he tends to go into, where nothing distracts him, he is so zoned out, you could hit him with a 2x4 and he'd still be reacting,,the bark collar seems to prevent him from escalating into that 'red zone' of his..

[GunnersMom]

Originally Posted by Branca's Mom

The next people that have him might lose their temper at the destruction and barking and abuse him horribly for it or might just dump him off at the pound where the chances of him not being immediately PTS are slim. And really, what are the chances that you could even place a 7 year old dog, much less a 7 year old dog with health problems?

I know. I woke up at 3:00 this morning after having a nightmare to that effect. Someone had dumped him at a no-kill shelter but didn't disclose his EPI and he was suffering. It was horrible.
Unless I could give him to someone I know, personally, I don't think I could stand it.

I can't turn him over to a rescue. We can't get into trouble here because moving again isn't an option. And I can't get to the point where they tell us that we have 48 hours to get rid of him.

So, I think you've all finally convinced me -- the collar is our only option at this point. Priority one is to just stop the barking. It still scares me, but really, we have nothing to lose at this point. If it makes his anxiety worse, well... he won't be any less adoptable than he already is.
I don't know if I have it in me. I really don't. I'm so frustrated at this point, but I have to give him every possible chance.

What do you guys think of this one? PetSafe Deluxe Bark Control Collar - Behavior Modification - Training & Behavior - PetSmart
I looked for the Dogtra and the Tri-Tronics ones. Can't find them at a store, locally. I can order them from Bass Pro, but they ship directly from the manufacturer and it's 2 - 3 weeks for delivery. (We don't have 2 - 3 weeks.) So far, the only ones I've been able to find, that I can obtain quickly, are the ones at Petsmart. Do you think it's a decent one?

God, I just wish we'd had more time to work on this before we moved. I thought we would. I didn't think we'd be able to find a place as quickly as we did. But when we found a place that was absolutely perfect for us AND allowed two big dogs, we had to jump on it.

[Sigurd's Mom]

Originally Posted by GunnersMom

What do you guys think of this one? PetSafe Deluxe Bark Control Collar - Behavior Modification - Training & Behavior - PetSmart
I looked for the Dogtra and the Tri-Tronics ones. Can't find them at a store, locally. I can order them from Bass Pro, but they ship directly from the manufacturer and it's 2 - 3 weeks for delivery. (We don't have 2 - 3 weeks.) So far, the only ones I've been able to find, that I can obtain quickly, are the ones at Petsmart. Do you think it's a decent one?

I use this one, bought from PetSmart: http://pet.imageg.net/graphics/produ...651740t400.jpg
The PetSmart link isn't working for me, so just click that and see an image, then go on the PetSmart site and you'll see the exact same one.
Excellent so far!! Best of luck, I hope it's able to help you. They also have a great return policy. We tried the spray collar first without any luck, they took it back (even tho the can of spray was completely empty)!! I believe you have 60 days to try it/return it.

[GunnersMom]

Originally Posted by Sigurd's Mom

I use this one, bought from PetSmart: http://pet.imageg.net/graphics/produ...651740t400.jpg
The PetSmart link isn't working for me, so just click that and see an image, then go on the PetSmart site and you'll see the exact same one.
Excellent so far!! Best of luck, I hope it's able to help you. They also have a great return policy. We tried the spray collar first without any luck, they took it back (even tho the can of spray was completely empty)!! I believe you have 60 days to try it/return it.

Ah, okay. I think they have that one in-store too, so I can just run up there tomorrow and get one -- won't have to wait for shipping.

Keep your fingers crossed...! I'll give it a try and let you guys know what happens.

And just so everybody knows, I'm having computer problems. If I disappear for a day or two, that's why. We can't get my laptop hooked up right with the new modem, router or whatever the heck it's supposed to be hooked up to. (I don't understand this tech stuff - lol.) I'm hoping that I won't lose my internet connection on the desktop in the process, but it's possible.

[BowWowMeow]

I am just now seeing this thread. Gunner clearly has separation anxiety so I really don't see how a shock collar is going to help him. Crate training him might help as long as he doesn't also have barrier frustration.

I apologize b/c I didn't have time to read the whole thread but have you ever tried counter-conditioning him following the protocol that Patricia McConnell lays out in her little book, "I'll Be Home Soon?" This link summarizes it pretty well: Separation Anxiety in Dogs

Have you tried the DAP plug in and anxiety wraps?

My heart goes out for you but perhaps you can appeal to the board where you live and let them know you are aware of the problem and are working to fix it?

Rafi had very severe SA when I adopted him. I was able to work him through it using McConnell's protocol and he is now fine when I leave him.

[doggiedad]

get a sitter. <

start leaving the house for 5 to 10 minutes
and returning.<

get some neighbors or friends to stop
in while your away. <

work with your dog everyday and several
times a day. <

work with a professional. <

good luck.

[RubyTuesday]

IF you reach a point where you've absolutely exhausted all possibilities but rescue or having him pts, perhaps you should consider surgical de-barking. As much as I HATE the idea, I'd certainly resort to that before having him pts or given away. A very, very good friend who also hates it, has stated that although she generally (& strongly) opposes it, the dogs she's seen that were 'de-barked' didn't seem unhappy, frustrated or stressed. I've also read that they can put holes in the vocal cords rather than severing them, which permits them to make a very small & inobstrusive bark.

I've never had to do it. I sincerely hope that I never do, but if it was truly a life or death situation, I'd much rather go with the surgery than lose a beloved dog, especially since the info I've gotten is that the owners seem more bothered by it than the affected dogs.

This is a brutally tough situation you're struggling with. Me & mine have all fingers & paws crossed for a happy ending.

[GunnersMom]

Originally Posted by BowWowMeow

I am just now seeing this thread. Gunner clearly has separation anxiety so I really don't see how a shock collar is going to help him. Crate training him might help as long as he doesn't also have barrier frustration.

I apologize b/c I didn't have time to read the whole thread but have you ever tried counter-conditioning him following the protocol that Patricia McConnell lays out in her little book, "I'll Be Home Soon?" This link summarizes it pretty well: Separation Anxiety in Dogs

Have you tried the DAP plug in and anxiety wraps?

My heart goes out for you but perhaps you can appeal to the board where you live and let them know you are aware of the problem and are working to fix it?

Rafi had very severe SA when I adopted him. I was able to work him through it using McConnell's protocol and he is now fine when I leave him.

Thanks, Ruth! I was hoping you'd weigh-in on this -- I remember seeing other threads where you mentioned how bad Rafi suffered with SA and I know you were able to get him over it.

This is what has me confused. I've had one trainer and one behaviorist say that it IS classic SA. One trainer said that he doesn't think it is -- he feels that Gunner is under the impression that Gunner should get what Gunner wants, and how dare I leave him. He thinks that Gun's just acting out, out of temper. (Now, this one trainer did not come to the house -- he just asked about two hundred questions over the phone and told me that he could turn Gunner around in one day. We decided against him and called another one.)
I go back and forth and half the time, don't know what to think.

I had to run out to the store Saturday, so mom stayed home with him. My god... you should have heard this dog! He didn't bark when I got ready to leave, but he was whining and crying and howling like his entire world just came to an end. I felt so bad for him, it was all I could do to walk out the door. But mom said he settled down pretty quick after I left.
So I don't know if this is actual SA or not...??

I'd say that there's definitely the barrier frustration here. I should have described his destruction in more detail and would have, had I been thinking. He's not destroying things simply because he's frustrated or upset. He's trying to get out and/or get to me. I've been putting him in mom's room when I take Riley outside and when he ripped up the carpet, it was because he was clawing at the baby gate, trying to dig his way under it and happened to catch a carpet seam. When he screwed up the bottom of the blinds, he was pawing at the window, trying to get out.
This is new since we've moved into the apartment. He would always bark when I took Riley out, but there was never any destruction from him trying to get out.

I haven't seen the Patricia McConnell book, but I definitely will. I love her.

I looked for the DAP this weekend, but couldn't find it. Petsmart either didn't have it or were out of it. I'm going to see if I can order it online today. I'll try almost anything at this point.

And yeah, I'm going to run down to the office when mom gets home tonight. The property manager wasn't here over the weekend, but we definitely want to talk to her and let her know what's going on. If nothing else, she'll know that we're not just blowing it off, that we're trying to work on it and maybe she'll cut us some slack.

Originally Posted by RubyTuesday

IF you reach a point where you've absolutely exhausted all possibilities but rescue or having him pts, perhaps you should consider surgical de-barking. As much as I HATE the idea, I'd certainly resort to that before having him pts or given away. A very, very good friend who also hates it, has stated that although she generally (& strongly) opposes it, the dogs she's seen that were 'de-barked' didn't seem unhappy, frustrated or stressed. I've also read that they can put holes in the vocal cords rather than severing them, which permits them to make a very small & inobstrusive bark.

I've never had to do it. I sincerely hope that I never do, but if it was truly a life or death situation, I'd much rather go with the surgery than lose a beloved dog, especially since the info I've gotten is that the owners seem more bothered by it than the affected dogs.

This is a brutally tough situation you're struggling with. Me & mine have all fingers & paws crossed for a happy ending.

Yikes! That's something I don't even want to think about. I mean, I can see where it might be an only option if there's truly a life or death situation, but thankfully, we're not there yet.
And thanks - I'm hoping that this can work out, too!

[LaRen616]

I would NEVER de-bark my boy! NEVER! That is probably the sickest thing to do to a dog! Take away his voice, how would you like it? I would rather give my dog to a home where he can bark all he wants than do that to him. If you cannot control his barking and you have no other ideas on how to get him to stop, than maybe you should try to find someone to foster him for you until you can find a new place to live or maybe the person fostering him can figure out a way to get him to stop barking. I wish you luck and hope that you find a way so that you can keep him. I would be absolutely sick if I were in this situation. But then again I would not live in a place that wanted me to get rid of my dog.