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Buying a puppy from a friend, help and advice would be appreciated

20K views 165 replies 49 participants last post by  David Winners 
#1 ·
Hi everyone!

A friend of mine has a pair of GSD's who just had puppies. I was originally very opposed to the thought of buying a puppy from someone when there are so many in shelters, but after my last experience I have changed my mind.

My friend is not a breeder, she does not do anything like that to my knowledge. She simply has a male and female GSD and they have puppies now. I am going to buy one from her, a female, and will pick her up when she's 8 weeks old.

I asked her if she was going to have them screened for any hip and elbow issues and she said it wasn't necessary because her dogs don't have any issues. I would just like to know upfront what I should ask about or have done to make sure we don't have any issues. I tried reading as much as I could and I would still like to hear from someone else that knows much more about these amazing dogs than I do.

Thanks in advance!
 
#41 ·
I just want to say the people who are telling you to go to a reputable breeder are people who have been down your route and are just warning you from their prior experiences.

If you think you will have a solid dog depending on how you socialize and train it, I will tell you from experience that you are dead wrong. It seems like your mind is already made up so good luck! I thought the exact same way as you. Why pay 1000+ for a pup when I can get one just as good for 300. With a breed that is completely over bred you'd be surprised how many have temperament/health issues.

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#48 ·
here's my opinion for what it's worth..

These puppies are going to need a home regardless. If they ended up in rescue, you'd probably adopt one if you had the chance..

My feeling is this,,go meet the parents of the puppies, start there, check out her place, check out the dogs, if you LIKE their temperament, I say go for it..They are going to need homes anyhow.

BUT, if you do get one, go in with the knowledge that, you don't really know the health background (hips and elbow status) on the parents because the owner didn't bother to xray them..If she says, "well there are no problems",,what is she houdini? (not being sarcastic) There is no way of knowing hip/elbow status without xrays.

I think if you want to do this, go in with the knowledge you may have an issue down the road or you may not. Just keep that in mind.

Again, the way I figure it, is, these puppies could be in rescue and you'd probably want to adopt one and maybe know less about them than you do now.

MEET the parents/check out the place, go from there..Just my 2 cents
 
#62 ·
here's my opinion for what it's worth..

These puppies are going to need a home regardless. If they ended up in rescue, you'd probably adopt one if you had the chance..

My feeling is this,,go meet the parents of the puppies, start there, check out her place, check out the dogs, if you LIKE their temperament, I say go for it..They are going to need homes anyhow.

BUT, if you do get one, go in with the knowledge that, you don't really know the health background (hips and elbow status) on the parents because the owner didn't bother to xray them..If she says, "well there are no problems",,what is she houdini? (not being sarcastic) There is no way of knowing hip/elbow status without xrays.

I think if you want to do this, go in with the knowledge you may have an issue down the road or you may not. Just keep that in mind.

Again, the way I figure it, is, these puppies could be in rescue and you'd probably want to adopt one and maybe know less about them than you do now.

MEET the parents/check out the place, go from there..Just my 2
cents
:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

My heart dog came from a similar situation. We lost him to the march of time and I still miss him each and every day.

When you see the pups evaluate them by taking them away from the litter, mom and owners, preferably to somewhere they have never been before. See how they react in the new situation. Are they engaging you? Confident? Are they terrified or curious about their new surroundings?

If you can startle them, (something like dropping a metal lid on concrete) do they recover?

Good luck.
 
#49 ·
Thank you all for the replies. I am going to see them this Sunday, if anything doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy, I'm not very sentimental so I am not going to fall in love with a puppy and ignore obvious warning signs, then I will walk away.

I'll update here when I know more. Again, I appreciate every reply and I am beginning to think more heavily into a breeder. I was just always against buying a dog and I had a general negative bias on breeders because of that. But you are all way more knowledgeable than I am and I will definitely take your advice. I can at least do some more research on it before totally giving it up. I will definitely not say that I didn't know, because you all took the time to warn me and I appreciate it.
 
#50 ·
Telling someone to buy from a "reputable breeder" is like telling someone to only use a "reputable lawyer" or a "good mechanic".

I'm from Calif. and there are many breeders that health test for everything possible. They have titled dogs as far as the eye can see and you couldn't give me one of them.

There is so much specialization in Show, IPO, Protection etc......that I don't believe many of these represent good stable GSDs.

It takes time to learn what you want and where to get it.

Experience takes time. I'm still learning.
 
#53 ·
When someone wants a rescue, I sit them down and have a long talk about what they expect out of a dog and what their level of training and exercise commitment are.

Then I do my best to talk them out of any breed bias they have and to explain that temperament and energy level are far more important.

Then I take them to the shelter and do my best to pair them up with an adult dog that suits their family.

This has worked pretty well for me in the past.

David Winners
 
#61 ·
When someone wants a rescue, I sit them down and have a long talk about what they expect out of a dog and what their level of training and exercise commitment are.

Then I do my best to talk them out of any breed bias they have and to explain that temperament and energy level are far more important.

Then I take them to the shelter and do my best to pair them up with an adult dog that suits their family.

This has worked pretty well for me in the past.

David Winners
If your friends are charging money for puppies then they are breeders. Not sure why so many people say they aren't breeders, but BREED dogs..... Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against breeding dogs/breeders.

If you really want one, get one, but it should be a decision you feel good about, not something you need to talk yourself into or have justified on a public internet forum.
Either way they are breeders. If they are charging, if they are giving them away. If they were responsible for (owned) the bitch at the time of conception, they are breeders. How or why the dog was bred, really doesn't matter, unless they sent it off for boarding and it came back bred, without permission of the owner, or something equally screwy, like they sent it in for teeth cleaning and the vet did a surgery to inseminate her unbeknownst to the owner.

The litter owners are breeders. There are just not that many situations that would make that untrue.
I have quoted three individuals whom I respect. I am not disagreeing with them. Forget the fact that this is not an ideal situation to go into. I did the same as you and I lucked out, we can work around every issue ( 17 weeks and dealing with going down stairs that have open spaced on the kicker panel ). Your daughter's dog will suffer and in turn so will your daughter. That's the bad news ! I needed to grasp the situation. If your daughter's dog breaks a leg, because there's 40 pound 16 week old pup wants to play, it will be heartache, and I know you never would put your child through that... On the other hand, breeder or no breeder accepting money even small amounts without the due diligence process ( hips -elbows - health screenings - temp issues is not a great success story from the get go. I know the member's here have been hard on you. My animal is not perfect and neither is their's that cost $2500.00, but a $200 pup with the hick ups can result in an $1500.00 doggie in 36 hours so, if your a gambler, the choice is yours..

It's time to get the books out, and do just a tad more to gain the correct perspective...:wub: Best of luck in everything !!
 
#54 ·
If your friends are charging money for puppies then they are breeders. Not sure why so many people say they aren't breeders, but BREED dogs..... Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against breeding dogs/breeders.

If you really want one, get one, but it should be a decision you feel good about, not something you need to talk yourself into or have justified on a public internet forum.
 
#56 ·
Either way they are breeders. If they are charging, if they are giving them away. If they were responsible for (owned) the bitch at the time of conception, they are breeders. How or why the dog was bred, really doesn't matter, unless they sent it off for boarding and it came back bred, without permission of the owner, or something equally screwy, like they sent it in for teeth cleaning and the vet did a surgery to inseminate her unbeknownst to the owner.

The litter owners are breeders. There are just not that many situations that would make that untrue.
 
#55 ·
I think you can go either way.

On the one route, you are not supporting a breeding that is questionable/oops/whatever, the pups will be 1 pup tougher to sell and properly home, and the owners will be that much less likely to repeat a less than stellar breeding practice.

On the other, you get a dog that is well-within your budget, fully understanding that any live critter can run you into money down the road, due to health, behavior, injury, etc. While you will be paying a small amount for the dog, the breeder is not going to be raking in the cash at $200 a pup, given they have their first vet visit, are wormed and given the first shots.

Any dog can have health or behavior or temperament issues. In fact, most will. I mean, they all die of something. They all require training. Temperament is what it is, but not everyone likes, wants or needs the same type of temperament in their dog.

I think you have to consider regrets. Will you regret buying a dog from a questionable background? Will you regret it if the dog has a serious health condition? Will you regret your choice if the dog's temperament is too soft, or too sharp, or too drivy, or two laid back? Will you regret having chosen not to get the puppy?
 
#57 ·
If you do get a pup from your friend, I would look into a good health insurance for the dog. Any time I don't know the dog's health background (and often even if I do!) I expect the worst. There are some insurances that will even cover a dog for issues such as hip dysplasia as long as it is not present in the dog at the time you buy the insurance plan. Just something else to look into and think about. It would help relieve some financial burden if you do get the puppy and it ends up having every health issue under the sun. Or at best, it gives you some security.
 
#59 ·
Honestly, it doesn't matter in the end WHERE you get a dog from. You never have a 100% guarantee in life. Dogs are dogs. Some days things happen. Some days you get a lemon in the middle of what was solid, strong structured dogs. All the careful testing and breeding cannot 100% prevent accidents, and many different diseases do have a component to them that deals with environmental factors. Not all of course, but it isn't always just step one. Having a good idea of the background makes the chances for a lemon less, but they are never 100% cleared!

My first dog was a rescue puppy. She had a wonderful temperament, was my heart dog. But she had dog aggression due to my being a 17 year old kid with no real understanding of socialization, she had bilateral HD and IBS (that was originally misdiagnosed as EPI). With all the things I went through with her, I was worried about unknown background.

My golden was kind of a gut feeling. He comes from basically a hobby breeder. She gets dogs from kennels that breed for nice temperament and good hunting dogs, and frankly I was kind of nervous about what to expect until I got down there and met the puppies and the parents. The dogs did have health clearances, and I could see them all the way back 3 generations on either side. It was the temperament of the sire that made me feel this was right. He was one solid, well mannered and gentle dog. From what I have met of puppies fathered by him (he is a popular stud in this area), they have the same general temperament that my Myles does. He is easy going, happy, friendly and gets along well with others. He had a random decision that strangers were scary one day when he was 8 months, and it has been work to get him past it, but hands down, I couldn't have chosen a better dog. People constantly threaten to steal him. I never have to worry about him.

When I started looking for another white shepherd, I came across a breeder I have gotten two dogs from. Health clearances, high PennHIPs on some of them, conformation is right, temperament is wonderful. I technically "adopted" my older female as she was done being used for breeding, but the puppy was a total buy. Only saw a few pictures and videos of him as a 3 month old. He was exactly what I wanted. The breeder has been a dream to work with.

Basically long story short, everyone is going to have their opinions based on their experiences. There is never a harm in meeting or looking at dogs. Leave doors open and when the right one comes along, you will know. :) So far my gut has yet to steer me wrong with my beloved four legged kids!
 
#60 ·
If she is really paying for vet exam, vacs and deworming then at 200 a pup she certainly isn't making money.
Check out the parents, and the conditions, INSIST on vet records and take your puppy home. DO NOT take her word that the pups have been to the vet.

But here is my warning and some friendly advice. Shadow was free, I have spent thousands of dollars, countless hours and cried an ocean of tears. She's 3. And for her, it may not ever improve.

The love of my life, my partner, my best friend died as a result of a genetic disease that I had no knowledge of until it up and smacked me in the face. She was my world, I thought she was fine, healthy and strong. Then she wasn't, and then she was gone.

Buy insurance and keep it paid up. I wish you the very best of luck, from the bottom of my heart.
 
#63 ·
I have a small dog and a GSD. I would have been much more scared to bring a large breed puppy home to a small dog then to have an adult GSD that has been tested around small dogs. I agree with Boomer on that point.

But that said, I am sure many people have had German Shepherd puppies around chihuahuas and with careful supervision it will be ok. Good luck on Sunday!
 
#64 ·
One of my heart dogs also came from a BYB that I rescued,,I didn't pay a dime for her, got her at 12 weeks old, she was a tazmanian devil, turned out to be one of the best , smartest, most titled dogs I'll ever have..Sure she ended up with bad knees, surgery, corrected, life is life:)
 
#65 ·
Thank you again for the replies. I am reading everything and talking it over with my wife. We are taking this very seriously and really considering what to do. Like I've said before, we've never had to buy a dog. They were always just given to us or showed up one day. What I am reading a lot of are stories of people that spent the time researching and the money on a dog from a professional breeder and still encountered the same problems that I'm being warned about.

I like the reference about buying a lemon, and I think that kind of puts in perspective for us. I'll keep everyone updated for sure. Right now I am leaning towards not buying this dog because my gut feeling and instinct is telling me that buying a dog is still wrong. It would have to take some deep convincing once I'm there and for all of the things on my mental checklist to come back cleared before I decide.
 
#70 ·
Thank you again for the replies. I am reading everything and talking it over with my wife. We are taking this very seriously and really considering what to do. Like I've said before, we've never had to buy a dog. They were always just given to us or showed up one day. What I am reading a lot of are stories of people that spent the time researching and the money on a dog from a professional breeder and still encountered the same problems that I'm being warned about.

I like the reference about buying a lemon, and I think that kind of puts in perspective for us. I'll keep everyone updated for sure. Right now I am leaning towards not buying this dog because my gut feeling and instinct is telling me that buying a dog is still wrong. It would have to take some deep convincing once I'm there and for all of the things on my mental checklist to come back cleared before I decide.
Could you elaborate on this a little?
 
#66 ·
To clarify my mental checklist:
1) Are the parents extremely over aggressive?
2) Are the parents cowards?
3) Are the parents chained or kept away for a reason?
4) Are the parents living conditions the same that I would provide?
5) Is the litter active?
6) Are they easily startled and don't recover?
7) Do they look and feel alive and active?
8) Are their living conditions the same that I would provide?
9) How did my friend get the parents?
10) How many other litters have they had?
11) Does she have vet records of the parents?
12) Is she going to have them fixed now?
13) What is she going to do if she doesn't sell them all?
14) Which puppy is the most/least active?
15) Do the look sickly?
16) Does my instinct tell me that something is wrong or not right?

Can someone add to this list?
 
#72 · (Edited)
To clarify my mental checklist:
1) Are the parents extremely over aggressive?
2) Are the parents cowards?
3) Are the parents chained or kept away for a reason?
4) Are the parents living conditions the same that I would provide?
5) Is the litter active?
6) Are they easily startled and don't recover?
7) Do they look and feel alive and active?
8) Are their living conditions the same that I would provide?
9) How did my friend get the parents?
10) How many other litters have they had?
11) Does she have vet records of the parents?
12) Is she going to have them fixed now?
13) What is she going to do if she doesn't sell them all?
14) Which puppy is the most/least active?
15) Do the look sickly?
16) Does my instinct tell me that something is wrong or not right?

Can someone add to this list?
Add. that you want the puppy to get examined at the vets BEFORE adoption and you want records. You should not pay for this.

I do just want to add my thoughts on breeders.. because I know you are tryingto educate yourself. My experience with breeders is this.. bought from what I would consider a BYB, or just a really bad breeder (conditions, no contract, not able to meet the parents, etc.) Titan is 4 yrs now, and I have very minimal problems with him. And temperament wise, he is great and in the few areas we have issues, I know for a fact it was my fault. Thought we were stepping into some steep issues but turned out for the better.. I did however buy from a reputable breeder and got the pick pup, who ultimately was put down at 7 months for unforseen issues.

So one would think I prefer the other over a reputable breeder but I don't. I prefer neither actually. It's all in what you want. If I wanted a specific type of dog (SAR, IPO, sport, just plain solid dog with drive, etc), I would go to a reputable breeder because the likelihood of me getting a puppy with that temerment is much higher than if I went elsewhere. If I just wanted a pet that I was ok with just house manners, not to be taken anywhere necessarily, etc. I would rescue or go elsewhere, with the knowledge I have gained on this forum.

The ONE comment you made that confused me was that you did not understand why we go to breeders when there are so many to adopt and so many that need homes, which is why you really want to rescue...... but then you limit yourself down to breed, sex, age, and temperament, which is no better than the latter IMO.

I am glad I read the whole thread though and see you are serious about this and taking in all the comments. I personally think that if this is what you want, and you are sure, then go for it, they need homes regardless and if you can meet the parents and all that jazz that people have suggested, you should be fine. Every thing is a gamble and even the highest paid breeders have their issues, so make the decision for yourself and just always, breeder or not, be prepared for things to fall apart and know what you will do in the case that it happens.
 
#68 ·
I'm not sure that I saw the pups were going to have an actual vet exam. I took it to mean the breeder would be deworming and giving the shots. That cuts a lot of their cost down. I'm not going to suggest one way or the other. I've had both. My BYB dogs were great pets, but some had health issues, others didn't. Some had temperament issues, some didn't. My current dog has great, solid temperament (still puppy-headed though) and sound, health tested parents. It's too soon to tell, however, what will develop in the future.
 
#69 ·
i would hazard a guess that these types of 'breeders' who claim to not be breeders dont even take the puppies in to a vet but rather do a vaccine at home and call it good
at 200 per puppy and 10 puppies for a total of 2k
that 2k would go a long ways towards paying for one vet visit for all the puppies

one puppys fee would cover the entire group for a vet check for them all

you cant tell me 2k tax free isnt a nice pay off for feeding the bitch a bit more for a few months and putting up with some puppy poo
usually they boot em out the door by 6 weeks due to the above
 
#71 ·
I read most of this thread, and most of the people on here have offered you some great advice and provided some valuable tips of making an informed decision on this litter.

I can only add that I am the proud owner of a BYB GSD that was tossed away and left to starve, because they couldn't make money off of him and couldn't be bothered with doing the right thing and bringing him down to the shelter and surrendering him. He was picked up by animal control and I fostered/adopted him, but not after he was practically starved to death and suffering from Demodex.

I am telling you this, because I agree with the posters on here who say "the litter is here". There are only a few options left for this litter. Sell, surrender, or abandon. One can only hope that option one or two are the only options your friend is willing to consider.

This is your family pet. It is important that you can enjoy the puppy and provide him with the most loving home and best of care for his entire life.

I will add that in my particular situation, I have a beautiful, healthy, happy, 13 month old pup. He's well adjusted, has a great temper, and to date has had no health issues other than food allergies. Like everyone has said, it's a crap shoot. However, if you are willing to roll with whatever comes with this puppy..then go for it. You may wind up with the perfect dog. AND...in my opinion...you are rescuing it. You're just going about it in a different way. Good luck and I hope you find the perfect GSD for your family.
 

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#73 ·
Nice post Melissa.

Who cares if the friend is a "breeder" or not. Whether they can make any money on 6 puppies or not. That is 6 puppies MBD per post #28 I think.

There are 6 puppies that need homes or will wind up in rescue/shelter.
In Ca., Gsd puppies will fly out of a shelter so fast it will make your head spin.

When people say you shouldn't buy from someone like this, I always wonder what they think should happen to the pups.Should they be drowned like some used to do, with unwanted or excess puppies.

They say but you know nothing about the background of the parents and then come the horror stories of all the BYB bred dogs health and temperament issues.

Yet, it's ok to go to a rescue or animal shelter because you are doing a good thing saving an animal. Except, that animal shelters and rescues rarely know the background of health and temperament on their dogs either.

I've had about 70% of the dogs I've owned (about a dozen or so) from unknown heritage and I guess I've just been lucky because all were healthy, other than the usual stuff. One only had a temperament problem and the rest were fine.

The best dog I ever had (I won't compare her to the two that are still alive) cost me 50 bucks from a situation similar to the OPs.

If I were able I could write a book on the qualities of that GSD. She was something very special and lived to be over thirteen years old.

You are not going to stop this type of breeding in the U.S.. It's legal in most cases and will continue.

The OP is not going to solve the over population of pets problem no matter what they do.
 
#74 ·
6 puppies = roughly 1200 then ;)
still tax free monies either way

you are rescuing it.
no not really
if it was in a shelter they would be rescuing it
this is not a rescue dog it is a purchased dog

i have nothing against purchasing a dog or cat or whatever as long as it is from a good breeder who health tests and the whole shebang

but calling buying a dog a rescue is a misnomer imo
this puppy is not on a death row somewhere nor living under an abandoned shack

it is a purchase whether the breeder is a good or bad one or if it was an accidental litter or not

now had the breeder spent all the money they are getting on the puppys and gotten them dewormed all along (guessing that is a big fat NO) vaccinated all along and spayed or neutered that could be considered adopting and not purchasing but it really is not rescuing

some of it is terminology but using the wrong terminology to make you feel warm and fuzzy is fudging it and again that is my opinion
 
#76 ·
most rescues/shelters are going to charge a fee as well, some alot more than 200$.

Let's say some of these puppies end up in a rescue and that rescue charges 300$, your still paying for a puppy.

Freebies are far and few in between,
 
#78 ·
Even if I have to pay for a pup, I'd rather see my resources go to something I support (helping animals, bettering the breed) than someone who isn't responsible with their animals, or worse, just trying to make money off puppies.

"You can't change the world so don't bother trying" mentality isn't something I can really stand behind. Nothing wrong with living your life according to what you think is right.

I think everyone made some good suggestions to the OP, and I'm sure they will do what they think is right!! :)
 
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