help deciding if i should go with this breeder?

[Kayos and Havoc]

Keystone GSD the GSD is not supposed to be more than 26 inches at the shoulder for a male and 24 for a female. Any one intentioanlly breeding dogs larger than that are not breeding to the established standard whether you are breeding Amrican Showlines or German Showlines or 'Hiedelberg types'.

FWIW my "foriegn import dog" does not show aggression. just sayin'.......

[KeystonGSD]

I understand ones concern with the term large, but I believe you all are forgetting that the general GSD customer that, we as breeders sell to, are not as well educated as the people on this forum. I personally advertise large, because for one, my shepherds are within the standard, but they are not small, and the average Joe wants a big substantial shepherd.

One should not dismiss a breeder because he's a good businessman.

[LoveEcho]

Originally Posted by KeystonGSD

I understand ones concern with the term large, but I believe you all are forgetting that the general GSD customer that, we as breeders sell to, are not as well educated as the people on this forum. I personally advertise large, because for one, my shepherds are within the standard, but they are not small, and the average Joe wants a big substantial shepherd.

One should not dismiss a breeder because he's a good businessman.

Think of them as creepy used car salesmen...just because Joe Schmoe might not know that the guy is full of it, doesn't mean you should buy a car from him...

You should absolutely dismiss a breeder if it's all "business", as in, breeding oversized dogs because they sell rather than preserving the breed.

[Kayos and Havoc]

I visited Heidelberg Shepherds in Spring, Texas back in the 90's. Pretty dogs. Well maintained kennels, spotless in fact. But a commercial kennel, it was a business. I also was friends with a lady that had a Heidelberg dog which is why I visited the kennel. I wanted one but could not afford the price at the time as I was a single mother with a small child to feed. lNo problem with a business or a profit but I think we owe the average Joe an education. BTW my hubby is named Joe and is really not average, he is well above.

Keystone I see you are in OK. I am in McAlester, a little bitty run down gritty dirty rednecked town 100 miles south of Tulsa. ( I love it here - NOT!). I work for the DOD and move all over the world. I am NOT from McAlester (thank goodness) and maybe I am arrogant but pride myself on being a bit above the average. I bought my first GSD from a BYB in Haskell(near Tulsa) on my first tour to McAlester. Kayos came from a breeder in Rush Springs, near Lawton. Lydi came from a breeder in McAlester (no she is not form here either....). There are good breeders everywhere but they have a moral obligation to advertise and educate the public that is trusting them enough to buy a puppy.

So calling your dog large because that is what the public wants is no different than breeders breeding the dog the judge thinks is prettier (as in the AKC breed rings) instead of breeding to the standard.

[doggiedad]

having a good family pet is a matter of well you raise, train and socialize. what you put into it is what you're going to get out of it. protection; some are protective some aren't. if i wanted a protective dog he would be trained accordinly.

Originally Posted by makokak

Can u guys recommend a breeder here in Los Angeles? Where to get a GSD puppy that will become a good family, companion and ready to protect the pack?

[codmaster]

Originally Posted by KeystonGSD

I understand ones concern with the term large, but I believe you all are forgetting that the general GSD customer that, we as breeders sell to, are not as well educated as the people on this forum. I personally advertise large, because for one, my shepherds are within the standard, but they are not small, and the average Joe wants a big substantial shepherd. (so then we could expect your males to be say, 25-26", then? and they are "within the standard" so very very few would be bigger than 26" - males of course)

One should not dismiss a breeder because he's a good businessman.

A good criteria for a breeder of GSD's - right?

And you seem to base YOUR breeding program on "what will sell" and not as was said earlier "to try to better the breed"? is that the case?

If so there is another description that some would apply to that type of breeding program!

HHHMMMM!

[KZoppa]

guys, we're trying to help the OP with finding a quality GSD. How about instead of arguing with Keyston about the Joe Schmoe thing, we help the OP with education so they're not another Joe Schmoe! Just an idea.

OP, please understand that the ONLY way to get a calm GSD is to exercise them and work their minds. My almost 3 year old female is LAZY compared to 98% of all GSDs but I still have to exercise her and make sure she's mentally stimulated.
A bored GSD is destructive and hyper.

There are a great deal of wonderful quality breeders but there are even more lesser quality breeders. You've gotten a couple suggestions from people who are involved in breeding quality dogs (Lee) and you've gotten the suggestion of contacting Robin Huerta by someone who has one of her dogs. I'd follow their suggestions if I were you. The first two breeders you posted, I wouldn't go near. I havent looked at the others.

[Castlemaid]

It is terribley difficult to make recommendations based on websites alone. There are of course some obvious ones where you could not pay me enough to take one of their dogs, but have fancy, slick websites with all the right buzz words, and there are some very experienced, knowledgeable breeders out there, producing wonderful working dogs and companion dogs, but only have a basic website with minimal info, as they have more than enough customers through word-of-mouth only.

To the OP, just randomly going through listed websites on a breeder listing, you'll never get through them all! See if you can narrow down some of your criteria, and ask for recommendations.

Some of the criteria you may consider are first, what type of shepherd are you interested in? (American Showline, German Showlines, or Working Lines), to start.

(Types of German Shepherds, by Wildhaus Kennels )

Then understand what makes a good breeder:
(Types of German Shepherds, by Wildhaus Kennels )

Choosing a Good Breeder - German Shepherd Rescue of Central Colorado

LOTS more to read here:

Things to look for in a 'Responsible' Breeder

Seems like an overwhelming task to read all these articles, but at the same time, you could spend, oh I don't know, many MONTHS going through breeder websites of BYB and asking for input. The GSD is one of the most popular breeds, and there are hundreds people breeding their house-pets and calling themselves breeders. No something to encourage by purchasing pups from them.

Read a bit, then you'll have a better idea of what knowledgeable and educated GSD people look for when searching for a good dog. The feedback you get from the forum about potential breeders that you have selected with a bit more insight on what to look for will be more relevant than posting BYB after BYB and getting "keep looking" after "keep looking" responses.

[jocoyn]

Originally Posted by KeystonGSD

I understand ones concern with the term large, but I believe you all are forgetting that the general GSD customer that, we as breeders sell to, are not as well educated as the people on this forum. I personally advertise large, because for one, my shepherds are within the standard, but they are not small, and the average Joe wants a big substantial shepherd.

One should not dismiss a breeder because he's a good businessman.

Keyston the comment was made based on a website listing GSDs in the 29-31 inch height range (or more) and huge dogs in the 120-135 lbs range. That is well outside of the standard.

[makokak]

Originally Posted by Kayos and Havoc

The AKC is simply a registry for purebred dogs, just becasue a breeder is listed there does not mean the dogs are great dogs. However: if a breeder signs the breeder's code of ethics there is some indication they are training, titling and health testing the breeding stock.

I used to get jazzed up about parents being titled. IMHO I do not think it is required. I DO think it is required that there be some indication of the dogs ability to work and some indication of soundness, yes titles on parents do that but so do titles on grandparents. If there are 5 generations with no title in sight I would say walk away really fast. It is hoped that these kennels are working and training the dogs and seeking some titles.

The Daily kennel is breeding a Theishof female. Surely Hiedi Theis sold her this dog for this purpose? I hope so anyway. Although parents are not titled I like thse two dogs being bred.

The second link, Canaan, is American showlines and they show in conformation. If you want an American showline, they look fine to me.

Salerno is a West German Showline breeder. These dogs look okay too.

You said you wanted a showline for a family companion, any of these would probably be okay. Personally, I prefer the West Germn Showline over the American but it is a personal choice. I have both American and German, I started with American and switched to German showlines. My Kayos is American, Havoc and Lydi are German.

Many on the board prefer the working line dogs and are trying to steer you there. You get what you want and what will work for you. As I said any of those breeders would be adequate for what you are looking for for your family. There are many working line dogs that might work out in your family too.

As for showlines not being able to work---- phooey on that. I do not do Schutzhund becasue I don't like it, I have tried it with Havoc and he surely has the ability and both of his parents are titled at 2 and 3 level. I have been doing obedience and agility and tracking with showlines both American and German for almost 30 years.

Good luck and show us pictures when you get your baby.

thank you for the input!