Accidental Inbreeding by brother sister

[selzer]

Originally Posted by robk

For every one who are so quick to say they would never take an inbred dog, how do you know the dog at the shelter with a completely unknown pedigree is not inbred? At least with these dogs you know the pedigree and it is a pretty good one at that. Who knows how these pups will turn out? My guess is that they will have extreme intensity being bred so close on Django. They may make very interesting sport dogs if place in the right homes.

For me it is more the paying money for seriously irresponsible breeding. Some people do a test litter, 1-2, and that would really depend on the experience of the breeder on whether or not I would want to participate in that. But the instant someone said it was done by accident, no money is going to change hands. People who own intact dogs have an obligation to be careful with them. Accidents may happen, but they should not profit off of those accidents, no way, no how.

Rescues and shelters are cleaning up the messes that irresponsible people make when they get a dog without thinking, when they dump a dog, when they dump a litter of puppies. No, you cannot guaranty that your unknown rescue dog is not inbred, but you aren't encouraging more irresponsibility by rewarding it.

If someone doesn't protect their bitch so that an unwanted pregnancy does not happen, then all of the expenses of whelping, vetting, raising the puppies, and placing them in homes is a good penalty for not being careful enough. Next time they have an intact animal, they will be more careful, or they will take steps to ensure they do not have an intact animal, because it costed a lot of money and took a lot of time. If they make $500/pup times 8 pups, that is $4k, after extra food and vetting, probably well over 3K in the bank. That is not a deterrant. I wouldn't participate in encouraging any type of oops litter, even if sire and dam were not related.

Too many people think that saying oops give them a free pass. No one need judge them for breeding because it is and accident and dogs will be dogs, no one is perfect. Some of those people very much wanted to have puppies, and were perfectly happy to have them now, even though the bitch is not old enough or other hoops have not been jumped. If someone simply does not want to take the beating that the breeder-haters will give to anyone who deliberately breeds dogs, and says oops, than I don't want to deal with them either. There is nothing wrong with breeding if it is done with thought and responsibility for the animals used and the animals produced. Hiding behind an oops kind of gives me a bad taste in my mouth.

[carmspack]

this would concern me ". Group costs for vacciations isn't that much (less than the cost of one pup given OP's price estimate) and even less if the person vaccinates themselves which many will do, especially if the breeder does and is helping through the process and explains to them how to do it to save money"

you were an accident so you aren't worth proper care -

[carmspack]

and the breeder could have "dumped" the litter to a broker, pet shop seller - puppy mill -- fudged the sires information -- so many things .

Instead they owned up to an accidental mating . Were honest in the representation. Fed and cared for , hopefully will have the pups checked out by a vet , advertised to find homes .

I am not saying this breeding should be done -- but it was .

[gagsd]

My vet doesn't give any "group" discounts. $44 new puppy exam, around $50 for a health certificate if going out of state, then add in vaccination, fecal, deworming, microchip and registration. Yowza.... Well over a hundred a puppy.

[GsdLoverr729]

The office I work at discounts litters. New puppy exam is free. Vaccination, deworming, fecal and microchip/registration are all discounted by 20% as a "multi-pet discount."
So I would guess it just depends on the office.

[msvette2u]

People who own intact dogs have an obligation to be careful with them. Accidents may happen, but they should not profit off of those accidents, no way, no how.

This needs to be a sticky.

Rescues and shelters are cleaning up the messes that irresponsible people make when they get a dog without thinking, when they dump a dog, when they dump a litter of puppies. No, you cannot guaranty that your unknown rescue dog is not inbred, but you aren't encouraging more irresponsibility by rewarding it.

So many just never realize the consequences of their actions.

[carmspack]

If it is truly accidental I would rather give them some assistance for the better treatment of the dogs so that they don't end up in a box at the side of a road waiting to be spotted and turned in to the local shelter .
There has to be some safety net for peoples mistakes.
The pups don't need to suffer or be denied .
How many people have bought dogs for as much , with not good pedigrees, untested for generations, not well cared for , not socialized for as much $$ -- because they wanted to get a "cheap" dog or they felt the pups were in such poor environment they wanted to rescue them . Those people, the back yard breeders , have every intention of doing this again and again . I don't think that is the intention of the owners of this accidental litter. It is a one - of . Hopefully they will find GOOD homes , maybe even sport or working - but non-breeding and the dogs will live long and appreciated , lives , and hopefully the "breeder" will continue to have interest in the welfare of the pups and have some avenue of communication with the new owners - health guarantees ? maybe feedback on hips. In any case the close breeding will reveal lots of information on the genotype of the sire and dam , brother-sister. If it is bad it will likely express itself and then that can be used in decision making on how best to breed , with intentions, the next time !

[onyx'girl]

In any case the close breeding will reveal lots of information on the genotype of the sire and dam , brother-sister. If it is bad it will likely express itself and then that can be used in decision making on how best to breed , with intentions, the next time

Test litter?

[msvette2u]

If it is truly accidental I would rather give them some assistance for the better treatment of the dogs so that they don't end up in a box at the side of a road waiting to be spotted and turned in to the local shelter.

At $500 per, I doubt they'll be abandoned. Plus, why should the OP feel obligated to take a puppy that may well exhibit some serious issues soon or down the road, due to the inbreeding? Sure it may not, but it certainly may as well.

[selzer]

My vet charges one exam fee and then the wormer and vaccinations x however many puppies are in the litter. Otherwise a litter of ten would be $750. That is insane.

Carmen, the problem is at the end of the day, the breeders of this pair will spend X on the litter before getting any return. It is not until the puppies are 7-8 weeks old when they realize, darn, no one wants to pay $500 each for our mistake. Now we will have to go down in price, pretty much to nil. Fine. Yes, they did not abandon them on the side of the road.

But if these people who have the money to take the pups to the vet and provide the extra food to the bitch, and whatever supplies -- kiddie pool x-pen < $500 probably all told, and then start racking in $500 per puppy, and they find the puppies don't come out with two heads or five legs, it is very possible that the people will do it again. You think not this time, why? Are they people you know? Is it because they have working lines of some well known dogs? Why do you think that these people won't try it again, if they come out ahead? Chances are, they will if they find the buyers and sell the puppies close to 8 weeks old. If they do not get much and it takes the six months to home them all, they may get someone altered. .