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Old 01-09-2013, 12:13 PM   #41 (permalink)
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My "Heidi" came from a brother/sister breeding, I didn't know that when we decided to get her. Here she is: Heidi 2/11/95 - 2/21/09

She had some health issues but was the best dog and I still miss her every day. She lived to be 14 years old

My current baby girl has health issues too so the best advise I can give you is to get health insurance for whatever puppy you decide to get

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Old 01-09-2013, 12:54 PM   #42 (permalink)
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I would see fewer problems in this accidental combination than I would expect from some -- highlight SOME - intentional high showlines which are much more concentrated on Canto (Uran) (ice berg breeders) than you would have linebreeding or back massing in this pedigree. Or for that fact on "hobby" or amateur totally open or linebred productions.

The example I gave of the founding or setting of type was because the people knew the dogs -- the quality of the dogs - and that was the missing link in this discussion . Without knowing the pedigree and what the genotype was like the question was difficult to answer.

Would I be comfortable with this combination - yes. Could there be some excellent working candidates - yes . Would I expect a lot of problems (if any) - not so much. Would I recommend this combination for a next generation -- not so much -- very close . You have to be an expert in the LINES -- Koos Hassing has used close breeding for a long time and he has a "fixed" type - but he is expert . Some of the admonishments against heavy linebreeding was as a safety precaution against less informed breeders making too much of a mess of things.
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Old 01-09-2013, 12:58 PM   #43 (permalink)
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last on this thema -- lab rats are virtual clones of each other -- severe and harsh culling necessary at outset - only choose those that are fit and move into the direction of your goals -- as stated before there are strains which have different applications, one is Wistar and the other the popular Sprague- Dawley .
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Old 01-09-2013, 03:23 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Not sure I would make myself crazy over it.

If you're looking for a nice pet, and the price is right... why not. As long as there aren't any health risks to be concerned about, and you're not looking to breed, I don't see a problem.

Look at the bright side.... There's always Jerry Springer. he deals with this stuff every day.
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Old 01-09-2013, 03:35 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Wade vom Wayward is the link to the pedigrees carmstack
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Old 01-09-2013, 04:54 PM   #46 (permalink)
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I agree that, absent any health problems when they're born of course, the age of the parents would concern me more than their close relation. Although accidental sibling matings are far from ideal, they're not the end of the world. However as others have said, genetic traits can be intensified in those close pairings (which is why linebreeding is a thing), so it is important to know what health or temperament problems you may be getting. (just for full disclosure, I'm basing this on my experiences with purebred horse breeding including sibling and parent/offspring matings, as I don't breed dogs)

My biggest hang-up in this particular situation is about the ethics of the owner of these dogs. I agree with those who said that an "oops" litter can happen even with the best management--it's unlikely if you're responsible, but one chewed-through barrier or irresponsible pet sitter or whatever is all it takes. I also don't think that it's inherently bad to let the bitch carry the puppies to term and then find good homes for them--as others have said, there may be reasons they want the dog intact, and from what I understand, abortion methods other than spay/abort are risky.

What concerns me is that you say the dogs are being offered at a discount, but not free. Even that isn't inherently a problem ("oops" puppies can still have value, after all), but I'd want to find out a lot about the owner and the circumstances of the conception before agreeing to pay. I would be concerned that, if this owner is some yahoo who doesn't manage the dogs right, paying them for the puppies may help convince them that they've hit on a great moneymaking plan.

I guess it depends a lot on how big the discount is, too. If their parents were sold for $3,000 apiece and the puppies are being offered for $2,000, I'd do a lot of research into the ethics of the people involved to make sure these are people I'm comfortable giving that kind of cash to. If the parents sold for $3,000 and the puppies are being offered for $300 in order to discourage people who can't really afford a dog or are purchasing on impulse, I'd feel a lot more comfortable assuming this is a true accident and the owner is just trying to get them a good home, if that makes any sense.
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:33 PM   #47 (permalink)
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I was told they would be sold for under $500. I am not going to do it. I called a vet's office today and someone there said they had an inbred dog before and it was mentally not all there and was very prone to seizures
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Old 01-09-2013, 06:50 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ihtsbih09 View Post
I was told they would be sold for under $500. I am not going to do it. I called a vet's office today and someone there said they had an inbred dog before and it was mentally not all there and was very prone to seizures
Case closed.
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Old 01-09-2013, 07:02 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ihtsbih09 View Post
I was told they would be sold for under $500. I am not going to do it. I called a vet's office today and someone there said they had an inbred dog before and it was mentally not all there and was very prone to seizures
Are you saying the person in the vet's office had an inbred dog, unrelated to these dogs, that was mentally not all there and very prone to seizures? Heck that can happen with ANY breeding, it wasn't necessarily because of inbreeding.
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Old 01-09-2013, 07:07 PM   #50 (permalink)
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I wouldn't pay $500. I might take one for free if I was looking for a pet.

I don't see myself in the market for a pet anytime soon though.
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