Accidental Inbreeding by brother sister - Page 4

julie87 · 01-09-2013, 03:34 AM

even if the pups turned out great I would not be comfortable with that breeder, sounds very unprofessional and if other problems arise who knows if they would be willing to resolve them..

GSDElsa · 01-09-2013, 06:50 AM

If it was free, maybe. The problem here is with such a close breeding you really have no idea idea what traits are going to be magnified and what ones aren't. Could work out great and all the drives and tempermenttraits that are amazing stand out. Or it could be all the weaknessesand bad things are what comes through. Too many unknowns and not worth it to save a few bucks. Breeder never should have sold a pair of puppiesto these people.

robk · 01-09-2013, 07:24 AM

Besides the inbreeding, its such a nice pedigree. Django is a well known local dog here. Very solid dog and a national level competitor. My guess is that the pups will probably turn out fine.

**JakodaCD OA** · 01-09-2013, 07:28 AM

I would also probably take one for free, nice pedigree, who knows how they'd turn out, would be interesting

arycrest · 01-09-2013, 09:32 AM

I've known very reputable breeders who have had "OOPS" litters and I've heard of people who don't know jack about dogs also having "OOPS" litters. If both were giving the puppies away or selling them at a nominal cost, I'd take one from the breeder depending on the health/temperament/conformation of the sire and dam ... and I would pass on the other.

carmspack · 01-09-2013, 10:15 AM

It is not ideal -- but how do you think the breed started?

Horand Grafrath (originally Hektor Linksrhein) designated founding sire was bred to Brünhild von Grafrath

Grafrath is the name under which von Stephanitz bred so this is his breeding . Look at the breeding - brother to sister who themselves are father to daughter. von der Krone is old old old practical working herding lines - Anton "SO" Eiselen , The German Shepherd

**jocoyn** · 01-09-2013, 10:19 AM

Maybe you could get the pedigree-people may have some idea of what particular problems may arise then. I would imagine it would amplify if the parents were also inbred to start with.

msvette2u · 01-09-2013, 10:21 AM

The breed "got started" with huge amounts of care and planning, not accidental breedings.

onyx'girl · 01-09-2013, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jocoyn

Maybe you could get the pedigree-people may have some idea of what particular problems may arise then. I would imagine it would amplify if the parents were also inbred to start with.

Pedigree was posted: Wade vom Wayward

wyominggrandma · 01-09-2013, 10:28 AM

The "oops" part of the breeding is not what bothers me the most. Its the fact the brother and sister have no health clearances, probably because of their age, and nobody knows what might have shown up in the next year with HD anything else.
Oops litters do happen, even with the utmost care and protection. I had an older sister/younger brother. These were Bernese Mountain dogs. The female had come in at 6 months her first heat, 5 months later for her second heat. I always kept them apart, no issues with that. One day I noticed how full she was looking. I counted back and it had been a little over 4 months since her last heat. Hmmm... I thought to myself " could she have come in at 4 months again and actually ovulated and he bred her? I took her in for xrays and sure enough, there were two babies and she was almost full term. I was not going to abort/spay her, she was already well on her way to her Championship. She had two puppies, one was born alive, needed alot of work to keep it alive. The second one was born alive, had one missing ear, missing toes and a huge cleft palet. I had that one euthanized immediately. The other puppy by day two was showing issues, could not nurse, could not move around much, just not good. I euthanized him also, had a necropsy done and his insides were a mess, intestines/organs in the wrong places, rib cage was malformed. Both of these adults went onto their Championships, had beautiful hips, etc. Just a horrible case of genetics gone wrong.
With so many health issues with GSD, I would be more concerned with what might show up in the pups as far as genetic issues.

01-09-2013, 06:50 AM	#32 (permalink)
GSDElsa Crowned Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Central, NY Posts: 4,044	If it was free, maybe. The problem here is with such a close breeding you really have no idea idea what traits are going to be magnified and what ones aren't. Could work out great and all the drives and tempermenttraits that are amazing stand out. Or it could be all the weaknessesand bad things are what comes through. Too many unknowns and not worth it to save a few bucks. Breeder never should have sold a pair of puppiesto these people. __________________ J, mom to: - Elsa - "Da Pookins" - Medo - "The Beast From The East"

01-09-2013, 07:28 AM	#34 (permalink)
JakodaCD OA Moderator Join Date: May 2000 Location: Old Lyme, CT USA Posts: 17,526	I would also probably take one for free, nice pedigree, who knows how they'd turn out, would be interesting __________________ Diane Danger Danger vom Kleinen Hain aka Masi "Angel" Jakoda's Bewitchen Sami CD OA OAJ OAC NGC OJC RS-O GS-N JS-O TT HIC CGC "Angel" Steinwald's Four x Four CGC HIC TT Harmonyhill's Hy Jynx NA NAJ NAC NJC RS-N JS-N HIC Jakoda's Jagged Edge

01-09-2013, 09:32 AM	#35 (permalink)
arycrest Crowned Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Central Florida Posts: 8,915	I've known very reputable breeders who have had "OOPS" litters and I've heard of people who don't know jack about dogs also having "OOPS" litters. If both were giving the puppies away or selling them at a nominal cost, I'd take one from the breeder depending on the health/temperament/conformation of the sire and dam ... and I would pass on the other. __________________ Gayle ... Slider, Bruiser & Faith At the Bridge: Andy, Abbey, Tasha, Tex, Echo, Yukon, JR, Too, Niki, Bo, Ringer, Kelly, Honey & Mac

01-09-2013, 10:15 AM	#36 (permalink)
carmspack Crowned Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: ontario - Posts: 5,522	It is not ideal -- but how do you think the breed started? Horand Grafrath (originally Hektor Linksrhein) designated founding sire was bred to Brünhild von Grafrath Grafrath is the name under which von Stephanitz bred so this is his breeding . Look at the breeding - brother to sister who themselves are father to daughter. von der Krone is old old old practical working herding lines - Anton "SO" Eiselen , The German Shepherd __________________ Carmen ******** Carmspack**

01-09-2013, 10:19 AM	#37 (permalink)
jocoyn Zombie Queen Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: South Carolina Posts: 11,832	Maybe you could get the pedigree-people may have some idea of what particular problems may arise then. I would imagine it would amplify if the parents were also inbred to start with. __________________ Nancy www.scsarda.org Beau -NAPWDA Certified Cadaver Dog Waiting at the Bridge (italics=GSDs) (hemangiosarcoma=blue):Grim , Cyra, Toby, Rainbow, Linus, Oscar, Arlo & Waggles

01-09-2013, 03:34 AM	#31 (permalink)
julie87 Master Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: CA Posts: 702	even if the pups turned out great I would not be comfortable with that breeder, sounds very unprofessional and if other problems arise who knows if they would be willing to resolve them..

01-09-2013, 07:24 AM	#33 (permalink)
robk Elite Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Fayetteville, NC Posts: 1,526	Besides the inbreeding, its such a nice pedigree. Django is a well known local dog here. Very solid dog and a national level competitor. My guess is that the pups will probably turn out fine.

01-09-2013, 10:21 AM	#38 (permalink)
msvette2u Banned Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Beautiful Pacific NW Posts: 11,005	The breed "got started" with huge amounts of care and planning, not accidental breedings.

01-09-2013, 10:28 AM	#40 (permalink)
wyominggrandma Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,369	The "oops" part of the breeding is not what bothers me the most. Its the fact the brother and sister have no health clearances, probably because of their age, and nobody knows what might have shown up in the next year with HD anything else. Oops litters do happen, even with the utmost care and protection. I had an older sister/younger brother. These were Bernese Mountain dogs. The female had come in at 6 months her first heat, 5 months later for her second heat. I always kept them apart, no issues with that. One day I noticed how full she was looking. I counted back and it had been a little over 4 months since her last heat. Hmmm... I thought to myself " could she have come in at 4 months again and actually ovulated and he bred her? I took her in for xrays and sure enough, there were two babies and she was almost full term. I was not going to abort/spay her, she was already well on her way to her Championship. She had two puppies, one was born alive, needed alot of work to keep it alive. The second one was born alive, had one missing ear, missing toes and a huge cleft palet. I had that one euthanized immediately. The other puppy by day two was showing issues, could not nurse, could not move around much, just not good. I euthanized him also, had a necropsy done and his insides were a mess, intestines/organs in the wrong places, rib cage was malformed. Both of these adults went onto their Championships, had beautiful hips, etc. Just a horrible case of genetics gone wrong. With so many health issues with GSD, I would be more concerned with what might show up in the pups as far as genetic issues.

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