Seeking In-Kennel Training and/or One-on-One Training in Los Angeles

shehulk · 09-23-2011, 11:20 AM

Anyone know of a trainer who's great with working line, super protective dogs and equally great with lay people (i.e. well-meaning clients who don't know better)?

I got my dog from a very reputable breeder who breeds excellent working line dogs. My dog is so protective he doesn't let anyone within 20 feet of me. He's heavier and taller than me and my "corrections" probably feel like I'm tickling him. So, that means I dread vet visits (he's muzzled and I need to swiftly hand leash to tech and walk away), regular walks are a pain, I can't have guests over and I can't really take him anywhere public. Obedience training has been limited and on-and-off. I would've preferred taking him to classes as a puppy but, other than his breeder discouraging that, he was sick until he was about 4 months old and had already begun exhibiting protective behavior at that age. So, group classes quickly disappeared as an option.

Other than ability with dogs, I need a trainer who's super patient with the dog owner and whoever else needs to participate in training. I got this dog originally with the intention of Schutzhund training but major life changes occurred and I won't have the time to work him. I'm looking for a trainer that can be sensitive to client's capacity and help compensate wherever possible to help make my dog a safe pet to be around others. And generally, make the dog fit in my lifestyle rather than me building my life around his.

With an experienced handler, he'd be a dream. With me, well, it's been stressful! Any pointers and recommendations will be hugely appreciated! Thank you!

Jack's Dad · 09-23-2011, 01:19 PM

My dog is from the same breeder and I have none of the problems that you mentioned. I take it the breeder is not dealing with you in a way you like. Asuming that you called her about this.
I was going to suggest her for training until I saw where you got your dog.
My experience ,which is limited, is that she will not spoon feed anyone.
She can be blunt but really knows the GSD breed.
I would put my sensitiveties aside and do exactly what she tells you.
I don't know of a trainer in that area who might please you more, that is good with the type dog you mention. You certainly do need help though.
Good luck

shehulk · 09-23-2011, 01:43 PM

A lot of it has to do with the handler. I'm a novice with working line dogs and the one I got also happened to be unusually serious and protective. I have nothing but respect for my dog's breeder and you're right, she's good. She's really great with people who are at least half as good as she is - if you're greener than that, there's a learning curve that she doesn't have time to help you overcome. That curve is where I'm at. And eventually, my boyfriend is going to need to be trained too on how to behave around the dog and I just don't see that working out so great. I understand the breeder's perspective and have been fine with her approach but can't expect my loved ones to be ok with it so we'll eventually run into an interpersonal relationship issue that I would prefer not to have to deal with.

Butch Cappel · 09-24-2011, 07:59 AM

Shehulk, It really sounds like your dog is more fearful than protective. A dog that has to be muzzled to go to the Vets is not what a GSD should be no matter who your breeder is. Try Mac Farmer 323-573-8473, he is as good as it gets with both dogs and people. Don't know where you live so if that doesn't work out you can call me at 817-483-2026, I do a lot of phone consultations for people and would be glad to discuss your concerns if you can't find local help, Good Luck.
Butch Cappel
k9kountry.com
thepolicedog.com

**JakodaCD OA** · 09-24-2011, 08:25 AM

as suggested in your other thread, I still think you should swallow your pride and go back to your breeder who is more than willing to help I'm sure.

It sounds like you've created a 'monster', and you both need some tough love.

Sometimes the truth hurts, but you've got to be willing to except responsibility take the criticism and move on to do what is best for the dog.

You admit your a novice, you've had this dog what, a year? Your breeder is not a novice and most likely knows best on how to help resolve the situation.

BUTCH, the OP says they are from the LA area

msvette2u · 09-24-2011, 09:50 AM

You keep saying your dog is "super protective" but I'm with Butch, in fact it was through phone consultations that he helped us see our dog was probably fearful as well (and when we saw it that way it started making sense and pieces fell into place).

Let's just say for a moment that he is, in fact, "protecting you". He's got extremely poor judgement, then, because you are not running into robbers and rapists at the vet clinic, nor on your daily walks.
People aren't approaching you with masks and guns, so your dog is making very poor choices as to who is "the enemy". If your boyfriend can't even live there without fear of being bitten, a man you voluntarily brought into your home, and is no threat to you whatsoever, then your dog is unstable and a danger.

More likely he is fearful because you've never taught him the right way to accept people into his space, and you're just being jerked around and the dog has no respect for you at all. In fact he's quite insecure (fearful) because he doesn't have boundaries and he's basically taken over the role of "leader", and in a potentially dangerous way.

PS. you don't have to become physical with the dog in order to begin working on these issues today.
Start with NILIF, making him "sit" before eating, going through doors, etc.
Use MIND GAMES and start taking back control of your home. Also consult with Butch via phone or another trainer but I'm afraid this one is on you. You could send him to months of dog academy and he'll still treat you like someone who cannot control him because you can't or won't.
http://www.noordinaryhomestead.com/u...ed/mind-games/

RubyTuesday · 09-25-2011, 06:27 PM

Taller & heavier than you...Gotta admit, I'm weak for the big guys. How tall & heavy is Leo? Regardless of his size, when properly trained, he should be as easily controlled as even the tiniest toy. A well trained dog exhibits self control as well as obedience. When she was 4 (& small for her age) my daughter could publicly walk my friend's adult Irish Wolfhound.

Some questions...What were the illnesses/conditions Leo was sick with for 4 mos? Why did the breeder discourage puppy classes?

Along with a couple of other posters, I'm uncertain as to whether Leo is actually exhibiting 'protective' behavior. That he's calmer & better behaved with his breeder doesn't mean his behaviors aren't rooted in fearfulness or a lack of confidence. From all she's posted & accomplished, I imagine your breeder to have enormous presence, which could easily lend Leo the (temporary) confidence & security to relax & feel safe.

I wouldn't expect a fearful dog from your breeder but even the best breeders (& I think she's probably among the best) can occasionally produce a fearful GSD. Leo deserves to be professionally evaluated to determine exactly what his underlying issues are. He should not be aggressive & threatening towards neutral strangers or the vet even in the absence of firm, fair leadership. It's troubling that he sees a threat under such circumstances. It's even more problematic that he's untrustworthy with family & friends.

As I stated in another thread, I think the best thing you could do for both Leo & yourself is to consider contacting the breeder & asking her to re-home Leo to a more appropriate situation. You're in over your head with Leo. This is true whether or not his issues are due to your management & training. IMO you & Leo are badly mismatched temperamentally. You've posted of these problems for almost a year & they're only getting worse. What is frustrating could become dangerous.

09-23-2011, 11:20 AM	#1 (permalink)
shehulk Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Pasadena, CA Posts: 42	Seeking In-Kennel Training and/or One-on-One Training in Los Angeles Anyone know of a trainer who's great with working line, super protective dogs and equally great with lay people (i.e. well-meaning clients who don't know better)? I got my dog from a very reputable breeder who breeds excellent working line dogs. My dog is so protective he doesn't let anyone within 20 feet of me. He's heavier and taller than me and my "corrections" probably feel like I'm tickling him. So, that means I dread vet visits (he's muzzled and I need to swiftly hand leash to tech and walk away), regular walks are a pain, I can't have guests over and I can't really take him anywhere public. Obedience training has been limited and on-and-off. I would've preferred taking him to classes as a puppy but, other than his breeder discouraging that, he was sick until he was about 4 months old and had already begun exhibiting protective behavior at that age. So, group classes quickly disappeared as an option. Other than ability with dogs, I need a trainer who's super patient with the dog owner and whoever else needs to participate in training. I got this dog originally with the intention of Schutzhund training but major life changes occurred and I won't have the time to work him. I'm looking for a trainer that can be sensitive to client's capacity and help compensate wherever possible to help make my dog a safe pet to be around others. And generally, make the dog fit in my lifestyle rather than me building my life around his. With an experienced handler, he'd be a dream. With me, well, it's been stressful! Any pointers and recommendations will be hugely appreciated! Thank you!

09-23-2011, 01:19 PM	#2 (permalink)
Jack's Dad Elite Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: California Posts: 1,351	My dog is from the same breeder and I have none of the problems that you mentioned. I take it the breeder is not dealing with you in a way you like. Asuming that you called her about this. I was going to suggest her for training until I saw where you got your dog. My experience ,which is limited, is that she will not spoon feed anyone. She can be blunt but really knows the GSD breed. I would put my sensitiveties aside and do exactly what she tells you. I don't know of a trainer in that area who might please you more, that is good with the type dog you mention. You certainly do need help though. Good luck __________________ Andy

09-24-2011, 08:25 AM	#5 (permalink)
JakodaCD OA Moderator Join Date: May 2000 Location: Old Lyme, CT USA Posts: 14,237	as suggested in your other thread, I still think you should swallow your pride and go back to your breeder who is more than willing to help I'm sure. It sounds like you've created a 'monster', and you both need some tough love. Sometimes the truth hurts, but you've got to be willing to except responsibility take the criticism and move on to do what is best for the dog. You admit your a novice, you've had this dog what, a year? Your breeder is not a novice and most likely knows best on how to help resolve the situation. BUTCH, the OP says they are from the LA area __________________ Diane Danger Danger vom Kleinen Hain aka Masi "Angel" Jakoda's Bewitchen Sami CD OA OAJ OAC NGC OJC RS-O GS-N JS-O TT HIC CGC "Angel" Steinwald's Four x Four CGC HIC TT Harmonyhill's Hy Jynx NA NAJ NAC NJC RS-N JS-N HIC Jakoda's Jagged Edge

09-24-2011, 09:50 AM	#6 (permalink)
msvette2u Crowned Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Beautiful Pacific NW Posts: 5,527	You keep saying your dog is "super protective" but I'm with Butch, in fact it was through phone consultations that he helped us see our dog was probably fearful as well (and when we saw it that way it started making sense and pieces fell into place). Let's just say for a moment that he is, in fact, "protecting you". He's got extremely poor judgement, then, because you are not running into robbers and rapists at the vet clinic, nor on your daily walks. People aren't approaching you with masks and guns, so your dog is making very poor choices as to who is "the enemy". If your boyfriend can't even live there without fear of being bitten, a man you voluntarily brought into your home, and is no threat to you whatsoever, then your dog is unstable and a danger. More likely he is fearful because you've never taught him the right way to accept people into his space, and you're just being jerked around and the dog has no respect for you at all. In fact he's quite insecure (fearful) because he doesn't have boundaries and he's basically taken over the role of "leader", and in a potentially dangerous way. PS. you don't have to become physical with the dog in order to begin working on these issues today. Start with NILIF, making him "sit" before eating, going through doors, etc. Use MIND GAMES and start taking back control of your home. Also consult with Butch via phone or another trainer but I'm afraid this one is on you. You could send him to months of dog academy and he'll still treat you like someone who cannot control him because you can't or won't. http://www.noordinaryhomestead.com/u...ed/mind-games/ Last edited by msvette2u; 09-24-2011 at 09:55 AM.

09-23-2011, 01:43 PM	#3 (permalink)
shehulk Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Pasadena, CA Posts: 42	A lot of it has to do with the handler. I'm a novice with working line dogs and the one I got also happened to be unusually serious and protective. I have nothing but respect for my dog's breeder and you're right, she's good. She's really great with people who are at least half as good as she is - if you're greener than that, there's a learning curve that she doesn't have time to help you overcome. That curve is where I'm at. And eventually, my boyfriend is going to need to be trained too on how to behave around the dog and I just don't see that working out so great. I understand the breeder's perspective and have been fine with her approach but can't expect my loved ones to be ok with it so we'll eventually run into an interpersonal relationship issue that I would prefer not to have to deal with.

09-24-2011, 07:59 AM	#4 (permalink)
Butch Cappel New Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Texas Posts: 15	Shehulk, It really sounds like your dog is more fearful than protective. A dog that has to be muzzled to go to the Vets is not what a GSD should be no matter who your breeder is. Try Mac Farmer 323-573-8473, he is as good as it gets with both dogs and people. Don't know where you live so if that doesn't work out you can call me at 817-483-2026, I do a lot of phone consultations for people and would be glad to discuss your concerns if you can't find local help, Good Luck. Butch Cappel k9kountry.com thepolicedog.com

09-25-2011, 06:27 PM	#7 (permalink)
RubyTuesday Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,315	Taller & heavier than you...Gotta admit, I'm weak for the big guys. How tall & heavy is Leo? Regardless of his size, when properly trained, he should be as easily controlled as even the tiniest toy. A well trained dog exhibits self control as well as obedience. When she was 4 (& small for her age) my daughter could publicly walk my friend's adult Irish Wolfhound. Some questions...What were the illnesses/conditions Leo was sick with for 4 mos? Why did the breeder discourage puppy classes? Along with a couple of other posters, I'm uncertain as to whether Leo is actually exhibiting 'protective' behavior. That he's calmer & better behaved with his breeder doesn't mean his behaviors aren't rooted in fearfulness or a lack of confidence. From all she's posted & accomplished, I imagine your breeder to have enormous presence, which could easily lend Leo the (temporary) confidence & security to relax & feel safe. I wouldn't expect a fearful dog from your breeder but even the best breeders (& I think she's probably among the best) can occasionally produce a fearful GSD. Leo deserves to be professionally evaluated to determine exactly what his underlying issues are. He should not be aggressive & threatening towards neutral strangers or the vet even in the absence of firm, fair leadership. It's troubling that he sees a threat under such circumstances. It's even more problematic that he's untrustworthy with family & friends. As I stated in another thread, I think the best thing you could do for both Leo & yourself is to consider contacting the breeder & asking her to re-home Leo to a more appropriate situation. You're in over your head with Leo. This is true whether or not his issues are due to your management & training. IMO you & Leo are badly mismatched temperamentally. You've posted of these problems for almost a year & they're only getting worse. What is frustrating could become dangerous.

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