fixation behavior

[Meb]

Help...Any advice for a good dog trainer that can help with a fixation behavior in Northern Michigan. I live in a very small town and had a trainer come from Traverse City which is about 65 miles north of me about 3 months ago. Meb has had a fixation on our cat Norman for about 2 years (every since I got Shay) before that Meb and Norman used to cuddle together, now Meb is constantly going after Norman and about a year ago while we were at work he bit off the end of Normans tail. Winter time during the day while we are at work the dogs have the whole upstairs area with a gate at the stairway. Norman has the downstairs but does come upstairs to "tease" the dogs and can jump on the ledge to be upstairs - so this is how he got bit. When we are home the gate is opened and all have roam of the house. Norman and Shay get along great and play but Meb is constantly fixated on Norman and goes after him. We couldnt get Meb to stop so we had the trainer come to the home and he put a prong collar on Meb and put Norman in the dog crate to "set Meb up". After observing Mebs behavior The trainer took Meb outside and "found his pain tolerance" then brought him back in and when Meb went after Norman he gave him a hard jerk and said No. He did this a few times and when Meb finally just ignored Norman we were not suppose to tell him "good boy". Trainer said at this point it is "tough Love" and just ignore him. I was on vacation the whole next week and really babysat to make sure Meb was not fixating and I did have to give him a "jerk" once or twice but I know I did not do it as hard as I was suppose to but it worked. Once I went back to work I think slowly the fixation kept getting worse and now I feel we are right back to square one. Meb is ok only when we put the collar on him. I told the trainer that I read that in order to stop a fixation you had to "redirect" that energy somewhere else but he didnt advise on that. So for now the fixation is still there but somewhat controlled with the prong collar. I know this is a long story but would appreciate any advice on what to do or if anyone in Michigan knows of a trainer for a 2nd opinion. Thanks Cindy

[Jax08]

I think you definitely need a different trainer. I don't know about MI so I hope someone else is seeing this.

I do know that prong collars, when used for aggression, do nothing but intimidate and/or make the aggression worse. And by not reinforcing the good behavior Meb has no idea when he was doing something correctly. So he was being corrected (sounds like an overcorrection by the trainer if he had to "find his pain tolerance" but he was never told when he did it right.

[dd]

I'm sorry but I can't agree with your trainer's approach.

I also think that you are not dealing with a "fixation" - you are dealing with prey drive. This is one of the reasons that greyhounds are not placed in homes with small animals - the drive is built into them.

Your best bet is to keep Norman and Meb separated.

[Jax08]

I absolutely agree this is prey drive. Fixation is caused by something..it's a symptom.

Does anyone have a trainer in Northern MI that can help????

[dOg]

Hey there fellow Michigander!

I agree with others that this is prey drive...
<span style="color: #3366FF">please read this</span>

Learning to break the chain in the sequence...that is when he first
starts in Eye, reset by issuing a command, and reward the compliance with Praise!

Besides that, I would insure that the cat cannot be seen by the dog in your absence. If the cat is instigating trouble by staring at the dog,
it's lucky all it lost was a piece of it's tail.

Put the cat, and a litter box in a completely other space while gone.

When home, put them together and work on it, consistently, with persistence, patience and praise!

You can fix this.

And do not call that old schooler back for more.
It didn't work the first time.

[Meb]

thanks for the advice. I know Meb has a high prey drive. I will work on this but I still think that he may have a fixation along with the high drive. He just stares at Norman and we always say a marching band could go through the house and he would not even notice. There are times when he refuses a treat or food due to the cat is in the room and he wont even look away. I will research this further and hopefully find a trainer. Thanks again.

[Cassidy's Mom]

Originally Posted By: MebHe did this a few times and when Meb finally just ignored Norman we were not suppose to tell him "good boy". Trainer said at this point it is "tough Love" and just ignore him.

Why not? I completely disagree with this, ALWAYS reinforce the behavior you want, correcting the behavior you DON'T want is only half the battle.

Originally Posted By: dOgBesides that, I would insure that the cat cannot be seen by the dog in your absence. If the cat is instigating trouble by staring at the dog,
it's lucky all it lost was a piece of it's tail.

Put the cat, and a litter box in a completely other space while gone.

I totally agree with this. They need to be kept completely separate when you're not there, not only to ensure your cat's safety, but also to discourage him from exacerbating the situation by taunting the dog in your absence. Whatever work you do with them when you're home is going to be completely undone while you're away otherwise.

Like the other posters, I'm not at all impressed by your "trainer" and his techniques. With Cassidy, I was able to stop her from charging the cats with the "find it" command. Her "leave it" was fine, but not that great when the cats were around, but from the time she was a puppy I had taught her that find it meant there was food on the floor. She was conditioned enough that I could yell it if she was in another room, and she'd come running at full speed and sniff the floor to find the food. In order to break her attention from the cats I'd throw treats AT her. When dogs are focused on interesting sights or smells their other senses can be virtually shut off, so they don't actually hear you. Using small soft treats that you can bounce off the dog will often break through that focus and redirect them, which is what you want. As soon as she locked onto the cat, I'd call out "find it" and start rapid firing little pieces of jerky at her - they'd bounce off all over the floor and she'd stop immediately and sniff around for them.

The funny thing is that my cats learned what that meant too, and eventually Cassidy and Elvis would be side by side on the floor together snarfing up the treats, lol! Not only did it get her to stop staring or chasing, it created a positive association with the presence of the cats, (Yay, food!) and helped the cats be more comfortable around her too. Cats that don't run can't be chased, and are much less interesting.

[dOg]

Quote: There are times when he refuses a treat or food due to the cat is in the room and he wont even look away

This is referred to as being "stuck in eye"... at this point it is an OCD behavior. When a ball is rolled into a corner and the dog is staring at it waiting for it to move, so it can then chase it, it might look funny, but it really is not. This is what Meb is waiting for, the cat to move, and then he will move to chase...then grab bite, then kill bite.

I hope you take this in your own hands and work on it constantly, a trainer cannot fix this in a few visits. You should either fix it, or re-home the cat or the dog, or this will not likely end well.