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Dog Myth on Omnivores or Carnivores

11K views 90 replies 40 participants last post by  Kaimeju 
#1 ·
My sister was the first to go vegan and I turned vegan for animal cruelty reasons. Then my sister wanted to make my dogs vegan. We had an argument and she went too extreme and turned violent, even threatened to hurt me. Riley my Labradoodle became vegan anyways for non-violence food. He has been a vegan dog since June and does fine with the diet. Talk later
 
#2 ·
My sister was the first to go vegan and I turned vegan for animal cruelty reasons. Then my sister wanted to make my dogs vegan. We had an argument and she went too extreme and turned violent, even threatened to hurt me. Riley my Labradoodle became vegan anyways for non-violence food. He has been a vegan dog since June and does fine with the diet. Talk later
Got to love vegans. Such a nice bunch of the peace loving folks... :rolleyes:
 
#23 ·
That. Exactly. Dogs are not vegetarians or vegans. Just look at their teeth - they do not have the flat molars for grinding up plant materials.
 
#7 · (Edited)
Dogs, unlike cats, are capable of surviving, though not necessarily thriving, on a plant based diet. They are very adaptable that way but are designed by nature to eat meat.

It is pretty obvious by looking at their teeth, understanding their digestive tract and even how they process proteins, carbs, and fats somewhat differently than we do. If you would prefer a vegetarian pet, I would recommend rabbits or goats, both of whom actually have quite the personalities.

As far as the sister, I am not sure the point or value of adding that information.
 
#9 ·
I have heard of some vegan dogs living near a friend of mine. I need to see what they are actually eating. It is possible they could survive but to do it right may cost a lot or else the dogs may get malnourished or have other issues in later life due to diet.

I'm sure if you feed a dog on potatoes all it's life it would be healthy enough.

I feed my dogs Raw and kibble 50/50, with rice, fish and potatoes occasionally. I feel a high energy dog needs good food and raw meat meat provides this.

I sometimes wonder, many dogs survive on kibble 80%Maize 20%'animal protein', Would they really be that bad off on veg only.

I've seen the benefits of raw and for over all health, I think a dog should be fed a balanced diet which gives the dog all it needs for a healthy long life.
 
#11 ·
While your dog has done "fine" for 6 months, I'd be interested in seeing long term health testing. The results are in the bloodwork and overall health of the animal over many years.

If you want an animal, get a herbivore next time. Rabbits would be good.

And NEVER get a cat. You'll kill it on a vegan diet.
 
#12 · (Edited)
"Does fine with the diet." is the main quote. What is fine? Fine is an extremely broad word. Most people use fine when they're not doing great, good, but not bad either. Most dogs do "fine" on any food. Its the reason purina, pedigree, ect are so popular. Dogs do "just fine" on those foods. Truth is, you don't understand how your dog is truly doing until you compare it to one just like it but on a different food...so compare two littermates, and check the coat (easy), teeth (need to have professional experience/training), energy level (easy), and other things that have to do with food.

When it comes to food...there are three levels your dog can achieve...fine, bad, and great. If you've never had an issue...fine. If your dog is itching and spewing liquid from every orifice...bad. You found a food that stopped the itching and spewing...great!

Some dogs need specialized food, MOST dogs can get by on pretty much anything out there just fine...

And what others just said...people generally don't connect the amount of vet visits or an earlier death to the food the dog eats. GSD made it to 12? Excellent! But could it have made it to 14 on a better diet? Could you have avoided those 3-4 extra vet visits you might've made throughout the dog's life if you fed it a better diet? Long term effects are generally never connected to day to day decisions, especially when the result you get long term meets expectations.
 
#14 ·
I am all about my dogs eating healthy, that's why instead of dog treats I give them apples, carrots, lettuce and berries but they also get pieces of beef, chicken and turkey along with their dog food.

I would never attempt to have my dogs on a vegan diet, I wouldn't want to wait and see whether or not the dog would survive or thrive without meat. What if it causes horrible side effects that are irreversible? I could not live with the guilt of knowing that I did that to my dog. :(
 
#15 ·
I agree that there's a HUGE difference between surviving and thriving. Dogs may survive on a vegan diet, but they'll never thrive as it's completely unnatural. If a child ate nothing but McDonalds for 10 years they would survive, but they would never be as healthy or thrive as if they had a proper balanced diet.

I have no problem with people being vegan or vegetarian, to each their own and I'll respect your choices as long as you respect mine. It's not a bad thing to agree to disagree on the matter. But to subject an animal with no voice or choice in the matter and force it upon them is cruel, there's a reason why they are built to be carnivores and it's not to have plants fed to them.

If you have a problem with meat, get a herbivore for a pet. That way both parties are happy and there aren't any issues. Otherwise, be a proper guardian (as you seem to like the term) and meet the basic dietary needs of the animal YOU chose to get.
 
#17 ·
From WebMD..for what it's worth

Dogs and cats process certain nutrients differently than people do. Here are two examples:
Vitamins A and D: Dogs and cats cannot make vitamin D in their skin, so it needs to be in their diet. And the vitamin D needs to be D3, which comes from animal sources, not D2, which comes from plant-based sources. “People and dogs can use D2 to some extent, but cats really need D3,” Heinze says.
Taurine. Dogs can make taurine if provided the right building blocks through dietary protein. Cats cannot make their own taurine at all, so it is regarded as an essential amino acid in this species and must be present in adequate amounts in the diet. Both species can suffer taurine deficiencies.


The risks of feeding dogs or cats vegetarian or vegan diet include:

  • Inadequate total protein intake (less than the 25 grams per 1,000 calories recommended)
  • Imbalance of the certain amino acids, such as taurine and L-carnitine (dogs and cats) or essential fatty acids arachidonic acid (cats only), in particular
  • Deficiency in vitamins and minerals (such as B vitamins, calcium, phosphorus, and iron) that are obtained ideally, or only, through meat or other animal products
If allowed to continue long enough, these dietary problems can lead to serious and sometimes irreversible medical conditions. The one veterinarians mention most often is taurine-related dilated cardiomyopathy (enlarged heart with weak contractions and poor pumping ability). Low taurine can also lead to reproductive failures, growth failures, and eye problems.


“People do this to make themselves happy,” says Olson, who worked in psychotherapy before changing careers in the early 1990s. “It’s not about the animal. When people tell me they want to feed a vegan diet, I say, ‘Get a goat, get a rabbit.’”




Good luck.


SuperG
 
#18 · (Edited)
#19 ·
Mad Lab, it is possible to balance the 8 essential amino acids using grains and legumes without any special supplements...Frances More Lappe Diet for a Small Planet, 1971...... [you know like beans and rice]....after her book came out people realized you did not even need to balance with each meal. Just over all.

...but there are other issues faced by dogs such as lack of the proper enzymes for carbohydrate digestion, proper pH of the stomach etc. Necessary vitamins as mentioned above. Poor ALA conversion to Omega 3s (about which not much was known then), etc.
 
#20 ·
Riley my Labradoodle became vegan anyways for non-violence food. He has been a vegan dog since June and does fine with the diet. Talk later
What's non-violence food? Are those carrots that jump out of the ground, grains harvested by kittens?

How do you lower the ph in your garden? I'm just curious, because typically I use egg shells, so where do vegans get the calcium to grow their plants? I'm sincerely curious.
 
#22 ·
So now we're calling vegan diets "non-violence food". That's cute. :)

I am sure you realize that many animals die in the production of vegan food crops. When you have big fields of corn, wheat, soybeans, etc, untold numbers of rodents, rabbits, birds, snakes, etc. die in large machinery when the fields are harvested. Turning natural wild habitat into farmland to feed humans kills off native species because of habitat loss. Animals die on the highway while your vegan food is trucked to the supermarket... shall I go on? I think you get the point.

So I don't think you can really have a "non-violence" diet. It's nature--living things die to feed other living things. You may not like it, but that's reality. At the logical extreme, if you don't want to kill other living beings, you'd have to kill yourself. And no one wants that.

I heard an interesting program on NPR the other day about how plants have senses, and may in fact feel something akin to pain. They certainly react to harmful stimuli. Even if you are a vegan, you're killing (and possibly hurting) living things. On the flipside, there are many living creatures that would kill and eat us, given the chance... creatures as tiny and seemingly insignificant as bacteria and viruses can kill human beings. And they make no bones about it. Bacteria and viruses have to make a living, too.
 
#25 ·
Dogs can actually do okay on a vegan diet, provided they get enough of the protein and nutrients their bodies require. I talked to some people who just went to Nepal on a veterinary mission, and most of the dogs there are fed vegetarian diets--rice, lentils, bread, etc. The lucky ones get some milk and eggs. But the dogs seemed to be okay on that diet. Not in prime condition, mind you, but they were surviving.

Cats are a different story. Cats are obligate carnivores, meaning they *require* animal protein, and nutrients that come only from animal sources. People who have tried to feed their cats vegetarian diets end up with blind, neurological and diseased cats. It's really sad.
 
#33 · (Edited)
Yep, i can vouch for that. Well, you see, they are just surviving, and most of the dogs i shelter or stray in Nepal might look okay but they are literally surviving.
Some of the shelter, if they have funds coming from abroad, or with some connections with rich dog lovers who donates in monthly basis feeds their dog meat once a week or twice at most. They seems to be doing fine, not great, fine. Keep in mind, in Nepal we eat "Dal and Bhat" rice and lentils, so they do get a little protein form lentils. I guess :confused:
 
#27 ·
veganism isn't even healthy for humans. If humans were just like every other animal and didn't have agriculture or a vast transportation system to ship foods from lands thousands of miles away, I can guess there wouldn't be any vegans walking around. None would get a varied enough diet to be even remotely healthy.
 
#28 ·
Im confused at the point of this thread. And, I don't understand why anyone would want their dog to eat a vegan diet. People who are vegans usually have a lot of deficiencies and issues...I mean. Some things just need meat. In no way is a dog a vegetarian, or even an omnivore.

Anyways, I will continue to enjoy my 'violent' food. :D

No matter what you do, things are always gonna die, thats how the world works. Its the circle of life.
 
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