My Vets, semi successful argument against All Raw meat diet???

[Lauri & The Gang]

The kale and spinach are both high in calcium.

Personally, if I had to home cook I would used baked, crushed eggs shells for my calcium source instead of veggies.

[Mendozaalexr]

Hi I'm new to the forum but have a lot to talk about and want to learn about from different people's opinions... I have a 15 week old German Shepherd (male named Boss).. I got him when he was 7weeks old and he is one of the best decisions I've made. . So I've been feeding him dry purina puppy chow and it can get costly. I've been researching the RAW meat diet and was wondering if I could get any fees back or recommendations on if what I'm doing is ok and will not harm him. So every morning and afternoon for the past week I've been cutting up about 1/2 a pound of raw chicken breast boneless and skinless and serving it to him with him purina puppy chow is this ok? Also I gave him a raw egg just once along with that I was told to just feed him a raw egg once a week.. Thank you for reading please respond I would really appreciate it.


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[GlennM]

Thanks for the responses. In my haste to go grocery shopping. I forgot to mention, she has raw beef marrow bones all over the house. She eats (loves) canned tuna,sardines and cooked salmon shredded. I also include in her food Bio-Joint health supplement for dogs. Thanks again Glenn & Kimba

[blackshep]

Originally Posted by Wild Wolf

Horrible event... shed many tears...

Not sure if you've been following but Granite passed away (alpha female) due to her gun wounds, and Haida (alpha male) and Lonestar (his son) are doing well, but haven't been returned to the enclosure yet. They are seen every day, though, and come to the center to eat. Two wolves were lost thanks to someone's ignorance.

2 dead, 2 remain outside and they are working hard to get them back in safely.

Can they not dart them? I can't beleive anyone thought that was the right thing to do. SO STUPID.

Isn't their enclosure 10,000 acres or something? Yeah, they must feel so clautrophobic...

Hope they catch the other two loose ones soon! Those people totally upset the pack order.

[Jax08]

Originally Posted by GlennM

Thanks for the responses. In my haste to go grocery shopping. I forgot to mention, she has raw beef marrow bones all over the house. She eats (loves) canned tuna,sardines and cooked salmon shredded. I also include in her food Bio-Joint health supplement for dogs. Thanks again Glenn & Kimba

That is still not getting her the calcium she needs. She needs to either have a calcium supplement or add raw bones that she can chew and digest in her diet.

Calcium supplements = baked and ground egg shells, blue/green algae

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1/2 tsp egg shell per l lb food
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[Dainerra]

Originally Posted by Lilie

I find it interesting that if a coyote comes up on a large dead animal, deer, cow etc., and the body is intact, they will begin feeding from the anus...after they eat the eyes.

If they are feeding from the anus, I don't know how a coyote can skip the stomach contents.

it's merely an easy starting point for the meal. There is already a hole there, so it's easier to start tearing away flesh than to make a hole in thick animal hide. They don't literally crawl up the digestive track.

[Lilie]

Originally Posted by Dainerra

it's merely an easy starting point for the meal. There is already a hole there, so it's easier to start tearing away flesh than to make a hole in thick animal hide. They don't literally crawl up the digestive track.

Oh...(LOL) I didn't mean that they crawl up the digestive track. I meant that they pull and yank from that beginning area. Although it is very disgusting to be a witness to such a feeding, it does make one think about it.

[Paul_R]

I tried a few different kibble foods for our GSD (CC) and she couldn't tolerate any of them. Constant diarrhea. So we gave raw a shot and she's thrived ever since. She's two years old and going strong. We're lucky because we have a great local producer Excel K9 Diet Home

They agree that meat alone isn't good and they add some other things but only small amounts.

Our 15 year old golden retriever has gotten a second lease on life because of the raw diet. The positive effects were immediate when we switched him over.

[Wanderer]

Carnivore = meat eater = Sharks, Lions, T-Rex
Carnivore = member of Order Carnivora = Lions, Bears, Wolves, etc

I will be using the second definition

The earliest carnivores were quite adept at eating all sorts of stuff: fruits, certain fiberous and tuberous parts of plants, flowers, insects, reptiles, fish, eggs, bone, muscle and organ tissue. However the bone, muscle, and organ tissue made up a very small percentage of their diet.

Think of what a modern day raccoon would eat.

What made a carnivore go on the path to bringing us giant meat eating beasts is a set of teeth called the Carnassials which were specialized in cutting meat. (Well, that and some lumps in the skull that are associated with the very keen senses that the carnivores have)

Some carnivores either kept this omnivorous diet or rediscovered it. Some went so far as to 'rediscover' herbivorous diet (Giant Panda)

The Cat family is an example of one that has gone on to become a 'supercarnivore' in that it eats meat meat and meat. One way this is revealed is to look at a cat's Teeth. It has small teeth in the front for chopping off bits, big canines for holding the prey, and then the carnassials for cutting the meat that is in it's mouth into swallow-able sizes. It also has big stretches where there are no teeth.



Now, look at a canine skull



It has a lot more teeth, because canines are still amendable to eating all sorts of stuff in addition to meat.

Of the common canines, the fox is the one that eats the most non-meat. It is an omnivore year round. The Coyote on a year round basis eats a lot more meat but during certain seasons of the spring and fall it eats more plants than anything else. Wolves are the most inclined to eat meat and only meat, but all wolves will occasionally eat fruts and nuts when extremely plentiful, and the frequency of this is heavily dependent on the sub-species. The sub-species most likely to have been the one which dogs descended from (The Indian Wolf or Arabic Wolf) take more advantage of non-meat than most other sub-species.

This is all stacking up in favor AGAINST a 100% raw meat diet.


Recently there have been some studies about the genetic divergence between wolves and dogs. What came to light is that what dogs have that wolves don't is genes that increase the dog's ability to eat starchy food.

This is being viewed in one of two ways. The first is that garbage eating wolves developed this trait in the earliest days of proto-domestication. The second is that dogs were domesticated BEFORE this trait, when humans were hunter-gatherer, and when Humans discovered agriculture both humans and dogs went through genetic changes to make them more suited to their new diet.

Either way, now we have specific evidence that dogs are NOT designed to eat meat only but can make other stuff work if needed. Clearly dogs are designed to eat meat AND starch.

This doe not mean that kibble and only kibble is best, or even that kibble and only kibble is better than meat and only meat.

HOwever if I were feeding a non-kibble diet I'd use the above information to be just fine throwing in a few slices of banana, bits of bread, even a bit of cooked vegetables.

[amberb]

Originally Posted by Wanderer

Recently there have been some studies about the genetic divergence between wolves and dogs. What came to light is that what dogs have that wolves don't is genes that increase the dog's ability to eat starchy food.

This is being viewed in one of two ways. The first is that garbage eating wolves developed this trait in the earliest days of proto-domestication. The second is that dogs were domesticated BEFORE this trait, when humans were hunter-gatherer, and when Humans discovered agriculture both humans and dogs went through genetic changes to make them more suited to their new diet.

The second theory is either described incorrectly by you or is itself incorrect. Genetics do not change due to diet. If I eat nothing but apples for the rest of my life my genes will not change over my lifetime.

A proper way to look at it is to suggest that humans/canines who already possessed genes that allowed them to digest and survive on a combined diet of meat and starchy foods were able to out compete the meat only group. Once agriculture was developed man was able to eat more regularly, and in turn the dogs who could benefit from the scraps ate better/lived longer. This is all survival of the fittest type stuff. Our genes don't mutate on demand.