My Vets, semi successful argument against All Raw meat diet???

[volcano]

Common sense tells me that gsd didnt evolve from N american timberwolves. So Is there any info on what wild dogs of europe and russia eat? Ive heard that some wolves eat lots of grass and vegies but the N american timberwolf is the one who eats all meat. I fed my girl a strawberry today along with her chicken legs...

[Verivus]

Uh has anyone considered the size of the stomach as opposed to say... the rest of the animal? Common sense tells me that no, dogs don't need veggies of any sort. I don't know why people keep arguing over this. Dogs don't even have the enzymes or dental structure necessary to break down the cell walls of plant matter. That's why those "BARF" diets ALWAYS cook or puree veggies in order to break it down for them. Completely useless to feed veggies otherwise. If I gave my dog a carrot stick right now it would come right out the other end looking just like it did when he first ate it.

Also, I wouldn't be giving your dog milk. It really doesn't help. I'm assuming you're giving bony meals as well.

[OffgridAlex]

I always think it is a bit curious when people suggest doing things the way that they were when we evolved is better.

A wild wolf rarely lives beyond 10 years, a wolf kept in captivity can live for more than 20.

People talk a lot about paelo diets in humans, but when we used to eat in that way you would be dead by age 30. I'm 31 and this toxic cancer causing western diet hasn't got me yet.

I personally think a BARF diet must be superior for a dog and the changes you have seen in your dog are proof, but I think we have to remember that wild wolves live on the edge of starvation, they will eat anything they can and waste nothing - a wolf that doesn't know where it's next meal is coming from is not going to refuse to eat stomach contents because it 'doesn't need vegetables' it will eat every scrap that contains a calorie. It will eat rats and snakes and half rotten things that have been dead for weeks and are crawling with maggots.....it doesn't mean we should be sourcing these things for our dogs.

[selzer]

Mmmmmm maggots. I wonder what the protein value is of a serving of maggots. Ewwww!!!!

I think that was my point when I said how long do they live? To feed an animal the way they would have been if they were wild is a bit unrealistic. Dogs do like fruit though. I remember someone telling me a story about their dog who was over-weight to the point of being embarrassing. They put the dog on a diet until it was eating half what the bag of food said it should eat. And still the dog gained weight. They checked for medical conditions. No go. Finally they realized the dog was helping itself to falls from the pear tree.

My girls like apples, bananas and especially oranges. I think that it comes down to how healthy your dog looks and acts on whatever you are feeding, so long as you are following some protocol on what canines should eat, and not just chucking them meat or feeding them left-over people food as their main food source.

[blackshep]

Originally Posted by Carriesue

I've heard the opposite from a wolf biologist that they actually don't eat stomach contents of larger prey but I do not know it to be fact.

I do think a lot of kibble and other dog foods(and cat foods! Cats definitely do not need veggies!) have way too much veg and fruit matter. Seems to be more for us then them.

I heard this too, something to do with the stomach acids burn their mouths or taste bitter?

[blackshep]

Originally Posted by OffgridAlex

I always think it is a bit curious when people suggest doing things the way that they were when we evolved is better.

A wild wolf rarely lives beyond 10 years, a wolf kept in captivity can live for more than 20.

That's because wolves in captivity are in thier own pack and not competing for territory, which is the biggest killer for wolves.

Also, wolves in captivity get regular meals, no risk of starvation. They feed wolves in captivity raw meat

[Wild Wolf]

My biggest pet peeve is people who have no experience with wolf diet and behaviour making claims like that.

In 9 years of watching the Haliburton Forest Wolf Pack I have never seen a wolf eat the stomach contents. They would pull the stomach content out and shake it to remove the green blob, then eat the stomach. Occasionally I have seen a wolf or two go over and lick the stomach contents or sniff it intently, but never consume it.

[Wild Wolf]

Originally Posted by volcano

Common sense tells me that gsd didnt evolve from N american timberwolves. So Is there any info on what wild dogs of europe and russia eat? Ive heard that some wolves eat lots of grass and vegies but the N american timberwolf is the one who eats all meat. I fed my girl a strawberry today along with her chicken legs...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=EE-3aggrAHI

[lone Ranger]

Originally Posted by onyx'girl

...........I transferred my 10 yr old over to raw after eating kibble her whole life, and she was almost 15 before her body gave out. I noticed remarkable improvement in her arthritic body after changing her diet. I fed green tripe but no veggies. Her stinky breath and skin/coat were so improved and she never got hot spots again. We fought hot spots every August until her diet change.

Thank you all, and specifically you (onyx's girl)... These are exactly the problems with my 10 year old Alpha Male GSD Dakota (Cody).. I think I am converted, it is just that the Vet put me off the track a little with what seemed a logical argument...

Now a scientific Caveat please: My pup is thriving, big for his age, smart and displaying working Dog characteristics none of my other Shepherds did. Further, my 10 year old in only week-ten days is responding positively to the raw diet. HOWEVER, the Caveat is that after my pup has eaten all he wants, if I give him a handful of Science Diet or Royal Canin, he voraciously attacks it as if there is something he is craving like carbohydrates... Once I made the mistake a few days ago and gave hem three handfuls and he ate until he threw up. There must be something in it his body is lacking, and I am thinking carbs?????? It is not just a change in diet, I alter his diet to raw chicken, meat on the bone, organ meat 30%, all sorts and nothing he attacks as hard as the Science or Royal Canin GSD specific kibble.

How is that? There was a theory that small dogs and animals crave what is good for their body... Is he after carbs? In your opinion is some kibble OK?

Thank you again for your help. I did not do as good of a job as I would like to, on my first two GSDs (both still alive)... And I am cautiously trying to do everything right with this pup. Big, Black, GSD working dog type...

Thank you again, this is a great resource of information, from you Good People that have tried it all for years and know the results..

lone Ranger in Oz.... Living "Dances with Wolves" (albeit GSDs).. As much as possible with Horses out on the Last Frontier of Australia..

[Verivus]

You're essentially giving him ice cream and chocolate after a meal. What 'kid' can resist junk food?