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Time To Prong

6K views 51 replies 18 participants last post by  Chip18 
#1 · (Edited)
I see a lot on this topic and I've read a handful of them, I think it's time to at least give a prong collar a try. I've been working with a flat collar since I got my pup who is now 7.5 months old, and the last 2 months I've really really been working on no tension on the leash. She has gotten better with changing direction and saying "heel", but eventually what she will do is just dart/pull hard in the opposite direction when I say "heel".

The two things that happened recently to make me rethink I should try a prong is: 1. Talking to a lady with a small dog and Halo is literally flat on all fours pulling toward this dog and she is very strong. 2. I take her to places like lowes/home depot and changing direction works at the beginning but eventually she does the same dart/pull when I change direction. Also, today I took her to a clothing store and no matter how much slack or how tight I had the leash I couldn't get any kind of heel going, the best I could do is get her to down and calm for a minute or two at a time(with treats)... I hate to think how much pressure was on her neck with the flat collar at the store today.

Sorry for the long post, is it time to try the prong? If I do start using a prong, does anyone see an issue going with chrome instead of stainless steel? I also tried the no-pull harness but rarely use is cause it just seems to be masking the pulling problem. She still pulls with it, there's just not as much tension on my end.
 
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#2 ·
She is a puppy who is acting like a puppy. Start working her at home where there is no distractions to begin and when she starts to pull, you stop. When the lead relaxes you start walking again. She pulls, you stop. It may take twenty minutes to get five feet to begin with. That's all right. You have to undo what she's already learned. Does she need to heel or just walk nicely at your side? There's a difference. If it's just at your side with a loose lead you might want to consider using a different word. I, personally, would not go to a prong.
 
#5 ·
Based on you saying it may take 25 min to walk 5 feet, I must not be consistent enough with stopping, but I have been doing this method. By the time the leash is loose, she pulls again, if I walk the other way she darts past me. I'd like her just to walk nicely if I'm walking her in the neighborhood/trails, but would like her to heel in stores/places with a lot of people.
 
#3 ·
7.5 months is too young to expect a consistent heel imo. I had to start using a prong collar at 5 months as my pup would just choke herself and drag me all over the place on a flat collar. At 16 months, I seldom use it now. So, I would say yes use one. It should be used as a training collar. I had to use it as a management tool. Chrome is fine. I'd get the small one and extra links if you have to and put it up high on the neck behind the ears. Change direction w/o looking at your dog while the lead is slack. She'll hit the end of the line if she's not paying attention to you and self correct. Of course you can use it as an aversive and pop her if the circumstances require a correction.
 
#4 ·
I totally agree with Deb. I saw an episode of "The Dog Whisper" and it said to do exactly what Deb stated. At first, I did not believe in Caesar but when I tried it with Titan; he acknowledged the intention and now walks with me. I will admit, I sometimes have to remind him but not as much. I will say this too, it's also has to be consistent. I take Titan for a dog walk everyday (rain or shine) for 45 to 60 mins. I have bought him and I good rain gear for the days it crappy outside....
 
#6 ·
Nothing wrong with a prong. It's probably less damaging than the flat and the amount of pressure. The prong should have rounded edges. And I recommend using the prong as a tool not a permanent fix. Use it to show her what you expect and eventually you shouldn't need it anymore. At 7.5 months she is more than capable of walking loose leash and paying attention what you are doing.
 
#9 ·
I have done the stop and wait technique with two of my pups a rescue and just starting it with a third rescue pup. I do like training that is really allowing these dogs to figure it out, rather then all force and commands. I of course live the country where being on leash is not a common thing and really need to spend more time just taking them into town and practicing on a sidewalk sometimes. That said it really does seem to work. Just at first you have to count to ten a lot to recoup patience as your five foot walk can take quite a while.
 
#11 ·
If you want to teach heel then work on heel position separately from walking right now. Just practice loose leash walking. If you want to do it without prong then you need to give her less leash to start with. If you have a six foot leash give her three to four foot. You can either stop when she pulls on the leash and say no and wait for her to come back to you, or when the leash gets tight immediately turn and walk in a different direction saying come on . Use a lot of turns left and right, walk in figure eights. Stop and have her sit when you stop. Lead with your left foot when you start. Carry some treats with you and when she is in good position and walking nicely tell her good girl and treat while walking. Treats can also be used to help position her if she wants to lag behind or walk a step ahead. Basically just a lot of patience and reputation.
 
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#14 ·
Since posting this, other than practice in the house and backyard I haven't used the heel command. Me being more consistent with stop/go with tension on the leash is working and making walks easier. I know it takes time to really see results with stop/go, but I truly think a prong (even on every other walk) will help a bunch.
 
#15 ·
If you are going to use a training tool you need to use it consistently. Not now an then, here and there. That sort of inconsistency will only confuse and slow down training. It you want a quick fix, then yup corrections will get you there faster than not using them. Make sure you know what you are doing and have descent timing.
 
#16 ·
Sounds good I will consistently use the prong.

One more question. The videos I've been watching on youtube about prongs show each dog in the heel position and this one says your dog should be behind your knees

So even though I won't be saying a command should I be teaching her to walk right next to me opposed to loose leash walking with a prong?
 
#32 ·
Sigh ... OP if you want to know how Jeff Gellman works and what he can do for you ... and I have no idea where you are ... see here.
Dates and Tickets ? RV Dog Trainer dog training seminars

And as to the comments being disabled ting ... pretty sure "our" Bailiff, for one could explain that choice. But if you want to ask "Jeff" questions ... go here.
https://www.facebook.com/Solid-K9-Training-140229622668254/

Aside from "Bailiff" and "Banned" Lou Castle ... "very few "Pros" do "Open Forums" ... I fully understand why ... and the "awful" video Luv Shepherds, saw is a part of the explanation! "Show your Work" would be the "answer" "for those that don't, understand that ... don't worry about it. That said "I'll" take Jeff's advise myself. :)

Moving on ... "OK" ... you have a "problem" and you need to know how to solve it??? Well so you know ..."you've" already taken the first step. Take a deep breath and stop doing and start "thinking" ... "out think " your dog! And so you know "if your dog is cutting hard in front" of you ... I have only experienced that "once!" It was a "massive" "Pitty" and that was the only dog that it took "me" more than 4 minutes to get to walk properly on a loose leash, it took ten ...just to get him "move??????" I was never able to solve the darting across the front issues as the owner did not care ... whatever.

That said ... I won't say, that a "Prong Collar" won't/can't solve your problem??? A "Prong Collar" may very well be the "solution" you need??? But I will say, that what you've been doing "should have worked??" If it's not ... most likely it's "something" in your interpretation of what your doing that is "issue???"

We all have our "preference" of "tools!" And the fact of the matter is that ... pretty much most, "Pros" (in America) teach there "clients" to train there dogs using a "Prong Collar!" Facts are Facts ... that does not mean it's the only choice but it is the most popular choice with "trainers," that can actually help people with difficult dogs!"

That said ... it's not what I use, I use a "SLL" myself ... works fine for "me!" But ... there again ... as I've come to understand ... proper use of a "SLL" is more of a "Art" than a "Science??"

I "tried to explain it" in my "SLL" thread but out of "thousands of views." I have only heard from maybe "5" people that say ... "Hey this SLL ... works just fine!" Aww well maybe there are more and they just never bother to say. :)

That said ... what you are using a "Flat Leash" and "Regular Collar" should work?? If it's not "maybe it's" something your doing??? I did not start with a SLL myself ... I started just like you! I was handed a "SLL" at a rescue event and they said "Use This." I was like sure whatever, it did work for crap for them! But for me .... it was pretty much magic! The rest of the story ... I handed him over at the end of the day ... and sure enough "off he went dragging his handler behind him!":crazy:

Long way of saying it's not about the tool it's about the user! You don't want to go down the path of searching for a "Magic Tool" to fix your dog! Training a dog "which should be done in a distraction free environment first" is about "understanding principles and putting in the work." :)

So yes my thread started as "SLL" specific but "blow back, so I changed it up to "Principles" of properly walking a dog! And I ended up helping members "one on one." Should have kept that stuff but whatever. If you do indeed decide to pursue the "SLL" thing ... I'll be happy to help. :)

And yeah ... if your dog "continues" to do the "dart across your front thing??" There is a way to stop that crap ... but most likely your not gonna like my suggestion! :)

But ... you know ... don't know ... maybe it won't be needed after you have a look here. :

Slip Lead leash - Boxer Forum : Boxer Breed Dog Forums

Welcome aboard and ask questions. :)
 
#33 ·
Hello everyone. I've been using a herm sprenger prong for a week and it has basically been night and day. She walks nice on a loose leash, doesn't do the dart/lunge thing at rabbits or geese, hasn't dragged toward or barked walking past other dogs (part of that is them not barking at her). I feel comfortable walking her past kids on bikes/skateboards. Now I can take her for longer walks without it being a struggle. Yesterday, I walked her outside of a local community college and it was very simple to have her calmly sit and watch the students walk past us, honestly I don't think she even pulled toward the first person. Overall I'm very happy.
 
#37 ·
I felt pretty hopeless, my dog was just convinced he was the one who was supposed to walk me. I have bought every single product on the market that was meant to promote "no-pulling" he would find a way to pull. I finally switched to the prong and I hired a trainer who specialized in working shepherds and I can walk him now. I felt really terrible at first but I am small and he is 80 lbs. I can't risk injury to myself or him if he gets loose from pulling. Good luck, it's a hard call but I'm glad we did it. I made sure I had someone train me the correct way to use it though.
 
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#41 ·
I personally don't use prongs but that's because I have a few other methods I use for nicewalking. One I really like is using this type of lead.

http://www.yourdogsneeds.co.uk/images/halti-training-lead-long_pop.jpg (Random pic from online)

Two of my dogs were able to start training with it right away while the other one is not comfortable with it at all so she gets to wear it randomly until she gets used to it because it does no good to work with her on it until she doesn't stress out. (she's 3 and a green dog basically still working to get her trust, she expects to get hit)
 
#47 ·
I removed a bunch of off topic pitbull comments. I removed the entire comment so if there was anything constructive in the comment, well, too bad. We are all really tired of the back and forth bickering about pitbulls. Next time people are either going on suspension or will be banned permanently (depending on their previous history).

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#48 ·
How much time do you spend training a recall during the day with your puppy? If he didn't understand that you're the boundary to stay by and give up impulses at distractions then he will not understand expectations on a walk. I would focus more on recalls than a walk.
 
#51 ·
I never meant to imply that you called me a one trick pony. It was just a phrase I used to get a point across. No apology necessary.

I am not sure what I can do about my posts being scattered and your request to condense them. Perhaps you can just start keeping tabs on my future posts, I am sure I will repeat things as I teach what I need, and I really don't need a lot, just absolutes.
 
#52 ·
I never meant to imply that you called me a one trick pony. It was just a phrase I used to get a point across. No apology necessary.
LOL OK then ... point was made! :p


I am not sure what I can do about my posts being scattered and your request to condense them. Perhaps you can just start keeping tabs on my future posts, I am sure I will repeat things as I teach what I need, and I really don't need a lot, just absolutes.
Naw, I don't expect you to dig them up ... it was just something I could have done, stuff gets scattered, you know and I am a digital pack rat.
 
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