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The effects of different collars on dog's spine.

15K views 157 replies 41 participants last post by  Chicagocanine 
#1 · (Edited)
Thought this was an interesting article about the different risks behind alllll the kinds of training collars and harnesses on the market these days.

Sorry if it's a duplicate thread, I searched and couldn't find it anywhere recently around here. I think bottom line, know how to use the tool and use it properly, like we always say....just thought it was a thought provoking article.

Happy reading :)

Caring for your Dog's Neck and Spine: Dog Collar Issues - DogBreedz.com

ETA: My apologies if "affect" is the proper grammar. I get those two confused constantly lol.
 
#91 ·
Chip18 - you nailed it. His recall is not stellar. One of his trainers is supposed to be a really great trainer, and he said for some reason he cannot get him to reliably recall either. He comes when he feels like it. It has gotten better, but still not to the point where I feel he should be at his age. Unfortunately I am not the best dog trainer, so I am a bit lost. Other than recall he does so well, and has great manners. He doesn't pull on his leash, and I can take him around other dogs and people and he behaves. But obviously recall is one of the most important commands.
 
#92 · (Edited)
i do feel a lot of pet people use the prong as a crutch/excuse. the prong is a training tool and should be used to train the dog and once its trained, why would you need to use it for daily walks or running errands or to go to the park??? you cant possibly think that a high and tight prong is more comfortable for the dog than a regular flat collar or even a choke chain that hangs loose around the dogs neck. no matter what the dog wears if it doesnt pull then there isnt any damage to any part of the dogs body. a few on here say that their dog is well trained and walks well on leash but they have the prong on just in case. lol that means your dog isnt well trained! thats just making excuses to stop training.

imo when you start training any dog, the goal is to get it to listen to any command in any situation. you should be able to walk your dog around the neighborhood without any collar or leash. if you need a collar/leash to walk the dog then you should continue training instead of putting the prong on the dog every time you go on a walk. imo if anyone needs a prong to take their dog outside then that dog isnt even close to trained.

if a dog is training/working then the prong is a great tool for control but in every day life a dog shouldnt need a prong collar. heck a well trained dog shouldnt need a collar at all.

edit- i'd also like to add that according to this article, schutzhund dogs must have some of the worst spines because they are taught to lunge and pull.
 
#102 ·
imo when you start training any dog, the goal is to get it to listen to any command in any situation. you should be able to walk your dog around the neighborhood without any collar or leash. if you need a collar/leash to walk the dog then you should continue training instead of putting the prong on the dog every time you go on a walk. imo if anyone needs a prong to take their dog outside then that dog isnt even close to trained
Didn't you make a thread recently about how your dog dragged you whining towards one of your friends and bit him in the arm or something? I remember it was something like that. Is the problem fixed now?

And I completely disagree with you about dogs being walked without a leash or collar. I don't care how well you think your dog is trained. Unless you're in the middle of nowhere with no one else around, your dog needs to be leashed at all times in public. I can't stand when people think they can just walk their dogs around without leashes. It's just asking for trouble.
 
#93 ·
75 pound bitch, and 45 pound girl. Flat collar. Loose leash. Chiropractor not necessary.



If someone truly cannot control a dog without a prong collar, than they shouldn't have the dog, because, what are you going to do if the collar fails? What are you going to do if that dog is running naked toward another dog? What is your 100# mother going to do if she slips and the leash comes out of her hand?

The prong collar should be a training tool. It should not be relied upon because the dog is stronger than you are and can pull you down.
 
#94 ·
Sorry.

There are a lot of sport situations where I want my dogs to be drivey and ready to go and rely on a prong collar to keep them where they're at and me standing.

Could I stop them from being amped up and pulling on the leash verbally? Yes. But that would ruin the drive that they have that I WANT. It would demotivate them completely.

Enter prong.
 
#95 ·
They are banning them in sporting events.

In AKC you can't use them, which is fine. The obedience people that want their dog hyped up use a toy or a tug. There are more ways to skin a cat.
 
#97 ·
Selzer, it's really not surprising that you, once again, bring up the fact that your bitch can be walked by a child...it's like your quintessential "test" to prove that your dogs are breed worthy or well trained or something...you do realize that every time you use that as your go-to example of breed worthy/solid/well trained dogs, you are showing everyone how incredibly low your bar is for the breed and standard?? It's ludicrous.

Now...you show me a "before" of an insane, high drive, out of control, leash yanking, 4 year old lab...pitbull...rottie...jack russel (lol)...and then an "after," with your training being proven on multiple animals, of all higher energy/drive/threshold/hardness/defense, then we'll talk. I'm sorry, but there are way more here that think your examples and comparisons are just plain silly than there are that don't. Sometimes you have to take a step back and think..."Am I wrong/crazy or is EVERYONE else"....ya know, everyone that has loads of dogs under their belts and story after story of success?

Prongs are banned in certain European countries and good ol' Australia (is there anything that isn't banned there??) and they aren't allowed on the premise of the WUSVs (or maybe that's just ecollars). They won't ever be banned in the US.

I am so against legislation based on fear mongering and an ill-informed/uneducated populace. It's just pathetic that we need a "higher power" to create legislation because we let the actions of a minority create fear in the majority...but now we're really drifting here.

PS: You have NO IDEA if your dog's spine is messed up or needs an adjustment....as you stated...you don't go to a chiropractor. That's the thing about dogs, they can't tell us if something is nagging them. It usually takes incredible pain for them to display symptoms.

ETA: I don't care how you train your dogs...it seems to be working for you. As I've said many times, it's the way you insinuate, judge, make extreme claims, and demean/belittle those that "aren't good enough to own a dog," that gets people defensive with you. You have not proven your "methods" on intense dogs...that's just the truth. Can't blame people for questioning someone who claims they can run 30 miles, when they've only run 5.
 
#101 ·
Look, I am not coming here to sell puppies. Sorry to disappoint you. Most of my dogs, I do not breed. It is my business whether or not I think they are breed worthy and it has nothing to do with this discussion.

Look, people live for 70+ years, and they walk on two feet. They are likely to need a bone crusher at some point. I was raised not to trust them. My sister goes, and she takes her kids. But I see it kind of like accupuncture or reke (however you spell that).

The thing is, lots of us have been where you are, we have trained that way, we have used the tools. Through experience with a number of dogs, we come to a different place. Lots of us started out with choke chains and compulsion. Right now prong collars are huge like choke chains used to be. Does it make the tool the best for most situations? I don't think so.

I have dogs that pull like freight trains. At four months old, they pulled that little kid right off her feet. I didn't use a prong collar on her. When I took her out the other day, she was fine. She's a year old now. It is not the collar that controls the dog, it is the relationship we have with the dog that controls the dog.
 
#100 ·
I just wonder how many dogs have damaged their owners shoulders while out for a leisurely stroll.

The best I heard was a lady being dragged out the door before she put her shoes on. The dog a cz shepherd cross doberman used to pull bike racks or anything it was tethered to when it seen another dog.

It also hated men in beards and uniform and would jump through windows to get to them and rip their sleeves or trousers off.

Great guard dog.:rolleyes:
 
#107 ·
i use a flat collar untill the dog is 9 months old. then
i switch to choker. when i switch to the choker the dog
knows how to heel on either side with or without a leash.

i saw a homeless man walking a Pit/Bull Dog type dog.
he a rope around his dog's neck. there was no noose.
he had the rope around the dog's neck and he was
holding both ends of the rope. the dog could have easily
backed out of the rope or pulled it out of the man's hand.
the dog was walking beside the man calmly. when the man
stopped the dog stopped, when the man moved left the dog
moved left. i saw this on a crowed center city street.
the dog stopped.
 
#124 ·
I also know that Bob Scott trained his SchIII dog with no corrections. I'm not saying it can't be done with the right dog. These are few and far between IMO.
 
#129 ·
>>"With the right dog."

That seems to be the common trend in higher levels competing without compulsion/correction collars. They have 1 (sometimes 2) that they are successfully competing with. Mario Verslype is also a top competitor that has one dog he went all the way with (although he has contracts with ecollar adverts and I've seen video of him "correcting" with his foot....). Shade has that one black GSD she took pretty high. It also seems to take a lot longer to get the results. Not saying that's good or bad, just is what it is. Some say faster is worse.....insinuating rushed, abusive, fearful, lazy, sloppiness....that's where a lot disagree and get defensive.
 
#125 ·
For the safety of my dogs I obey both the letter and the spirit of leash laws. In a conflict which dog gets the ding with AC, the one on leash or the one off? Law enforcement really doesn't care that you're a super special snowflake whose dog never ever makes a mistake.
 
#146 ·
What's wrong with making life easy? Or for that matter, dog training?

Does it really mean you're a crappy trainer/dog owner because you choose to use something, a prong collar for this thread, that has a high success rate for a lot of people..

Because that's what I'm hearing or we shouldn't own a dog because of the training tool we use.
 
#149 ·
Everyone insists on reading what I wrote incorrectly.

I never said that someone should not own a dog because they use a prong. I said, if someone truly cannot control a dog without a prong collar, they should not own the dog.

There is a difference.

The arguments about light or elderly women with 100 pound dogs, and the old prong collar jingle -- he gets so excited, well they are the worst arguments for prong collar usage.
 
#148 ·
I've used prong collars, very safe and effective tool used properly. After reading this thread I took a look around the web and was surprised at all the misinformation out there in regards to banning them, lots of fear mongering, horrible pics of abused dogs as if that (pics) was normal for prong use, I guess I shouldn't be surprised with the number of activist type people out there that thrive on telling everyone else what they should and should not do. What do they do with dogs that won't be cotton candied along into training?
 
#154 ·
Chip18, all this talk of your 'prong abuse' has me wondering what exactly happened? You bring it up in all the threads, and now my curiosity has finally gotten the best of me, lol. I'm not trying to be nosey or anything, so please ignore my question if it's too much. But I'm really dying to know :D
 
#156 ·
LOL. No not a problem, It was a BullMastiff/Pit mix I used it on (badly).

The only thing I did right with the prong is “never” using in for anything other than walks! Everything else he was stellar and he could walk "off leash" just fine! But put the prong on him and it was "go time"!

He couldn't drag "me" down the street but I don't have photos of children or little old ladies walking him either, no one could walk him but me!

I did it wrong (the prong) with him from day one he passed in 2010, but for “ten years” he resisted my amateurish attempts at using a prong!

When I got into Boxers I started to change approaches, my first Boxer/Pitt ,I told him one time to SIT!!! he sat then looked up at me like he was going to cry! He was a great dog and learned quickly.

That's when I realized that if I'm not getting the results I want with my dog then the problem is with me and not the dog! Never used it again on another dog, except,,like an idiot on Gunther!!!:eek: Got a Boxer never used ( won't even think of putting a prong on her) and taught her to walk beautifully with a flat leash and collar.

Hence for me prongs are bad??

Then finally I saw this:

That's when I realized..."Oh my god, I am an idiot!!!"

Sadly it was to late for Gunther. But I now fully understood what a moron I had been! I was JQP. I half read a book and figured, I knew what I was doing! My dog was telling me "NO YOU DON'T" but I wasn't listening!

Now I understand, it's not the tool it's the end user! It scares the crap out of me when newbies are told to grab a prong to fix their dog! And told Nothing about it's proper use!

Pretty much what I drew from my experience...is that “any tool improperly used can be abused!”


Hence for me a flat collar and leash for training ,and a new mind set...if I can't the job done with regular tools then ”I think ...what am I doing wrong?? Not what's wrong with this stupid dog???”

Then the pros get upset because a useful tool is being slandered and skilled armatures get bent of shape because they seem to think “if I can do it anybody can!”

Nobody every seems to mention “The proper use of a Prong collar?” It alway seems to be, Prong... Pro or Con?”

That's pretty much it. :)
 
#157 ·
Chip18, I want the details! LOL! So, you put the prong on, and then what? He didn't pull? I'm not being a weirdo, I just want to know why you're so hard on yourself, lol. You always come into prong threads uttering doom and gloom warnings, and I'm very curious why. Details, please :D
 
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