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Old 12-09-2012, 08:06 PM   #71 (permalink)
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I find it intersting that you bolded every word except a really important one: NIPPING. The dog is biting when it get's its "zoomies". Also, we don't know if the OP has young kids. A large dog running around, nipping, and not listening is dangerous, especially if you had kids or guests, or maybe grandma and grandpa come over to visit. "Zoomies" are acceptable OUTSIDE behavior, not inside the house, IMO
I bolded the description of the zoomies. As I posted above, when this behavior happens with my pups, I take them outside or turn their activity into a training session, because clearly they are asking for attention. If it is not a good time, then crate is the place they go. I don't see any point in getting out an ecollar for this behavior!
I would crate a dog when company comes over if they are an overexhuberant juvenile.
I'm done going round and round in this thread, but I'm sure someone will quote my post for whatever reason.
So get out the ecollar and have fun...even if you have no clue how to use it. Its all good.
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Last edited by onyx'girl; 12-09-2012 at 08:08 PM.
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:32 PM   #72 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Olivers mama View Post
Just what this topic needs --- more sarcasm. The ecollar is not a crutch, but a tool. Never hurts to keep one's mind open or gather a little more education for oneself.

I take it you are of the age group that never "got the belt". Well, for most of us that did, it wasn't abuse, it didn't kill us, & most of us learned not to repeat whatever action we did to get the belt in the first place. At least, I did. No one's talking about a "whooping" here. It's obvious you know next to nothing how these collars are used. ** rude comment removed by ADMIN**.
Right! I agree with you 100% Olivers mama! The whole point of any training is to create reliability regardless of method or tool. There is nothing wrong with e collars and when used properly is a wonderful training tool.

I want to take a second for everyone to think about this. If you are using a regular collar, regular leash, choke chain, prong collar, halti head collar ALL of these training devices/tools can be used in an abusive way. When people do not have proper knowledge or experience using ANY training device bad results can happen.

The e collar has been given a bad name. It is not a crutch. It is not a torture device or a last resort tool. It is a highly effective training tool when used correctly!
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:38 PM   #73 (permalink)
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A shaky foundation is just that....will it hold up in the long run? I'd rather do it with the bigger picture in mind and proof it.
Not sure how this crept in here. My articles are set up with "the bigger picture in mind" and they involve proofing to ensure reliability.

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That to me is training "applied properly". Which for me is going slower to make sure my dog is understanding the exercises and then proofing them with distractions.
If training is set up properly it's not necessary to "go slower to make sure [the] dog is understanding the exercises." Proofing should be part of all training.

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I didn't say the ecollar is a quick fix, just that the OP wants a quick fix and thinks the collar will do it instead of actually training/working with the dog!
The insinuation here is that using an Ecollar is not "actually training/working with the dog." That's just silly.

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Originally Posted by onyx'girl View Post
If people do not understand the use for it, and just put it on the dog to correct a behavior is that good?
I don't think that anyone is advocating that.

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Originally Posted by onyx'girl View Post
I'd hope they'd learn about the training methods before experimenting on the dog, it is only fair.
THAT, is what people here, who use the Ecollar, are advocating.

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Timing is very important in the correction and having someone that is versed in ecollar training to help a novice is a bad thing why?
I don't think that anyone said that this was a bad thing. But some are saying that having a trainer immediately available is necessary. It's not, and not everyone can afford that.

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Not sure why you always have to over-analyze everyone's posts?
I think that I analyze "just enough." lol
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:39 PM   #74 (permalink)
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Earlier I wrote,
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Anyone who thinks that modern use of modern Ecollars involves "forc[ing a dog] into submission" is demonstrating how little they know about how the tool can be used.
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Originally Posted by robfromga View Post
Really ? The 8-10 sheps and the mals that I've owned or fostered must have been exceptions.
Yep, really. Not sure how owning a few dogs has anything to do with knowing the many ways that an Ecollar can be used. Can you tell us?

If you, or anyone else wants to use the tool that way, they can. But thinking that it's the ONLY way to do it, just shows, as I said, how little that person knows about how the tool can be used. Please, do us all a favor, read my article called Teach the Recall and show us where the dog is "forced into submission."

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The ecollar is a total last resort. If you have to rely on shocking your dog to listen then your training methods needs dressing up.
The Ecollar is far from a last resort. Perhaps you feel that way because you don't know much about the tool, as proven by your previous statement. Please show us where ANYONE in this discussion has said that they "have to rely on shocking [their] dog to [get him] to listen."

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Guess you should get out the belt for the 3 year old that talks back too.
Thanks for AGAIN demonstrating how little you really know about Ecollars. Anyone who equates using one, to using a "belt for the 3 year old that talks back" CLEARLY has no idea of ways that they can be used. You only display your lack of knowledge with statements like this.

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Originally Posted by robfromga View Post
The ecollar is a crutch for the trainer that can't devote the time a animal needs.
Please show us some advantage to taking MORE time to solve a problem, than it needs.

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Originally Posted by robfromga View Post
Try working the dog, work his tail end off. Figure out what he's good at and capitalize on it. When he's tired, then train.
Dogs learn best when they've NOT had their "tail[s] work[ed] off," just as does any animal. Since you're so fond of anthropomorphism, try this. Have a child run around a track till he's exhausted, and then try to teach him long division. He can't learn a thing, he's too busy trying to catch his breath. That's some pretty bad advice you've just given there.

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Originally Posted by robfromga View Post
Or you can just whoop him real guud!
ANOTHER example of your ignorance of the tool. These debate techniques might work on forums where very few people have experienced the tool. Here, you're not going to make much of an impression. If you'd like to learn something about the Ecollar rather than just repeat nonsense that you've read or heard from others, who know nothing about the tool, I'd suggest that you take a look at my articles. I've linked to the one on the recall and it's a good place to start.

Here's what we know about you from your previous posts.
  • You can't get a group photo of your dogs because you're not able to "get them to settle down."
  • You've got a 9-10 week old puppy who is being "aggressive" towards one of your other dogs ... You've "t[r]ied leash corrections, making him sit...[you're] at a loss."
  • Previously you wrote that you've [i]"owned " dogs in [your] life..." Yet, in this post you write, "The 8-10 sheps and the mals that I've owned or fostered..." Which is it, "6-7 dogs" or "8-10" dogs?
  • Regarding the "aggression problem" with this puppy, you state, "I'm guessing its his prey drive sparking up?" Drive, especially prey drive, doesn't manifest itself at this age except to the smallest degree.
  • Back in May (just 7 months ago) you wrote, "The training will be a first, I've never taken a dog to a class before, it will be a learning experience for us both."
  • You diagnosis your puppy's aggression as "fear type aggression" and then ask, "How do I work him into self confidence?"
  • Your 14 week old dog is showing aggression toward other dogs and you ask, "Other than just socialization how do you train out fear aggression? ...What should I do when he starts barking at a dog 75' away, that has shown no threat? How do I redirect so I can reward the proper behavior?"

robfromga I really don't think you're experienced enough to be giving dog training advice OF ANY KIND here. You're not a trainer and in fact you've only been to one training class in your entire life of owning dogs, that one, as a student. You're welcome to your opinion, but people should be aware of your lack of experience in training dogs. Now they are.
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:44 PM   #75 (permalink)
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Lou, I use an ecollar....I'm not against them. The OP put it on her pup before she knew how to use it! That is the crux of this thread
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a highly effective training tool when used correctly!
I believe this is the whole issue....using it correctly is the most important thing!
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:57 PM   #76 (permalink)
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Lou, I use an ecollar....I'm not against them. The OP put it on her pup before she knew how to use it! That is the crux of this thread

I believe this is the whole issue....using it correctly is the most important thing!
Yes it is, but somehow it got turned into whether the behavior the OP's dog was exhibiting was acceptable, whether it should be addressed by them by being able to get the dog to stop, rather than just ignoring the behavior by crating or putting the dog outside.

It's their dog, and they want to train their dog so it will stop running around like a nut in the house when told, "out" things on command, and stop biting.
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Old 12-09-2012, 09:24 PM   #77 (permalink)
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I find it intersting that you bolded every word except a really important one: NIPPING. The dog is biting when it get's its "zoomies". Also, we don't know if the OP has young kids. A large dog running around, nipping, and not listening is dangerous, especially if you had kids or guests, or maybe grandma and grandpa come over to visit. "Zoomies" are acceptable OUTSIDE behavior, not inside the house, IMO.
I agree.
15 months old is still a puppy but a very large one. Excusing bad behaviour because the dog is 15 months old and a GSD with lots of energy just sets one up for a big problem down the road.
Just like excusing bad nipping as the "landshark" phase.
It seems to depend upon the makeup of the household sometimes. People with a dog and no kids can laugh about "zoomies" around the house, knocking things down or a puppy drawing blood every time it nips BUT in a household with young children these behaviours are dangerous.
Careful what you excuse on the premise of an excited GSD......as if not well under control by 15months I would think it is the reason a lot of these dogs would end up in a shelter.
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