prong collars equal AWESOMENESS

[Jax08]

Originally Posted by kelina

No. I said she did fine with the prong, so when I switched it for a test she did okay for the first day with reg. Collar?

Dogs do not generalize. If you teach Sit in the same place every day for 6 weeks and then go to PetSmart, the dog will most likely not sit. Different place, different things to look at and smell, more interesting things.....You need to teach a command in several different places for the dog to think "oh yeah...I got this!"

So you put the prong on her, then took it off and did the command within minutes. She remembers that she had a correction and redoes the command. But if you put her on a flat collar, take her to a different place the next day, getting identical results will probably be iffy.

[kelina]

Originally Posted by Jax08

Dogs do not generalize. If you teach Sit in the same place every day for 6 weeks and then go to PetSmart, the dog will most likely not sit. Different place, different things to look at and smell, more interesting things.....You need to teach a command in several different places for the dog to think "oh yeah...I got this!"

So you put the prong on her, then took it off and did the command within minutes. She remembers that she had a correction and redoes the command. But if you put her on a flat collar, take her to a different place the next day, getting identical results will probably be iffy.

We actually did this today! And yes different smells different looks blah blah but ! She did awesome! Heeled when i said so and such. She is really intelligent! I mean of course she tried pulling and going her way, she cant learn something she did for almost 2 months of her life.

Practice makes perfect.

[kelina]

Originally Posted by jang

I have tried everything on Sib..gentle leader..front harness..flat collar..but the prong is the only way I can control Sib..She was returned to the breeder by first owner because of her being so hard to walk...pulling..etc...Finally, with the prong she is manageable..i do not feel like I have failed in her training..This is just the ONLY way to manage this dog..jan

Exactly! What a great story : ))

[kelina]

Originally Posted by jocoyn

lol you got that right! The other day beau came flying into the house where my husband was typing on the sofa on his laptop. Laptop survived (phew) and husband still has his man parts (phew) but 20 years ago that would have been a big fight, a punished dog, etc. ........ He laughed and said "when are we going to be too old for this, reminde me?"

hehe so cute

[kelina]

Originally Posted by RowdyDogs

I think everyone realizes that but it doesn't mean we have to like it.

OP, I'm glad the prong collar is working for you. Personally, I've never had noticeably better results with a prong than with a gentle leader-type device (either harness or head collar), and I have seen them sort of "shut down" some sensitive dogs so I tend to prefer the gentle leaders. I think a lot depends on the dog and the handler's methods, so basically personal preference. Clearly your girl isn't bothered by it so I'm not criticizing, just giving my perspective.

Although, on smaller dogs I'll usually just train in a flat collar and haven't had problems teaching loose leash walking and heel with just that. I only used to use a head collar on my GSD because he is large enough (and was already when I got him) that I didn't want to risk losing him if he spotted something and tried to take off before I got him reliable leash manners and recall.

Aww thankyou! She is feeling way more confident when she looks at me! You own a small dog? I wouldn't want to hurt their baby necks with a prong lmao!

[kelina]

Originally Posted by jocoyn

Many people start around 6 months when the puppy is large enough and strong enough to be hard to control if you have not either trained the puppy properly from the get go or have a punk on your hands.

I think good training can eliminate the need for most dogs. I wound up with one with Beau because I was negligent in doing solid training with him (and he is also simply full of himself) because I was dealing with two other dogs - one with cancer and one with a back injury and he did not get as much attention in obedience as I should have given him. My older dog, Grim, has never needed more than a flat collar.

There is still a need to teach loose leash walking without a prong. No dog should be expected to "heel" for recreational walking for long distances....and the prong is really not designed to simply keep a dog from pulling on a long line.

To me it has its uses as a training tool and it must be fit properly and you need to learn how to give a proper correction because it can actually backfire with a dog lunging etc. because it can increase, not decrease, drive with the wrong kind of correction.

I think most folks though just fall into using the prong as "power steering" instead of a training tool.

Gah! You are soooo smart come be my trainer for a day

[Blanketback]

Originally Posted by Jax08

And I owe you an apology. I was really blunt when I said...

That's very nice of you, but I don't think you need to apologize for being blunt I'm very direct myself, and I'd be the last person you need to walk on eggshells around! I actually enjoyed that comment, lol.

[x11]

wow no offence to anyone - altho it will most likely be taken that way - this thread is so self-reinforcing to each other's posts it's kind of creepy. it's like a roomfull of new zealots revealing their conversion stories to each other like one big mind F.

just an observation.

BTW i have no opinon on the use of the prong other than its a training tool that can be used correctly or not, like any other training tool.

PEACE and halleuiah

[RowdyDogs]

Originally Posted by kelina

Aww thankyou! She is feeling way more confident when she looks at me! You own a small dog? I wouldn't want to hurt their baby necks with a prong lmao!

Haha not really "small"...the breed I've always worked with and still own (in addition to my GSD) are Australian Cattle Dogs, so they're generally 30-40 pounds. They're still pretty good-sized dogs and extremely tough, but they just don't have the weight that my GSD does! With them, I don't worry about them jerking out of my hand or getting me off-balance so I generally just train them in a flat collar. I used to use prongs and gentle leaders on them but with the training methods I use now (clicker training mostly), I just find it unnecessary.

Hector got a gentle leader even though I am physically capable of holding him, but he's big enough that it was difficult and I thought it was just nicer for both of us. I can't train effectively when my arm is being yanked out of its socket. But he learns so quick, I was able to quit using it within a month or so.