Trainers often debate about the use of electronic shock collars. Some trainers find these collars unethical and unsafe. The pro-collar camp takes a different stance. Some say it just distracts the dog, calling it “tap technology” and others say it may be painful at the instant but then the dog learns to behave and there are no lasting negative effects.
In 2003, researchers from the Netherlands, Matthijs Schilder and Joanne van der Borg, assessed the short and long term behavioral effects of dog training with the help of shock collars. They wanted to know three things:
Interesting article but I have issues with it. Cause they used the collars exactly the way I was told NOT to. As a correction at a high enough level so the dogs will yip.
To used for TRAINING (not just as correction) you use the lowest rating on the collar that your dog feels (not that makes them yip).
Be interesting if the study was used with the proper way to use the collar well.
It explodes because people are generally only slightly more confident their religion is the only correct one, as they are about their dog training methods
I am wondering what type of dog also. I just trained my soft girl with it. She is so sensitive to correction that she can be a challenge to put the finishings of training on. The e-collar works better than my voice or any correction on any type of collar she might wear.
I found it applicable across a wider variety of dogs than most other tools.
I am wondering what type of dog also. I just trained my soft girl with it. She is so sensitive to correction that she can be a challenge to put the finishings of training on. The e-collar works better than my voice or any correction on any type of collar she might wear. I found it applicable across a wider variety of dogs than most other tools.
And now we have Samba who ALSO wants to know "what type of dog" you find the Ecollar inappropriate for. Usually when two members of a forum have similar questions, others do as well. So AgilseGSD instead of evading, avoiding and being derisive, how about you tell us what type of dog you think the Ecollar is "inappropriate" for?
I think it goes against training on some level. If we punish a dog, they see it as attention, whether positive or negative. So a shock could very well halt training by giving the dog some form of attention. If that makes sense. People have recommended it for our GSD when he whined (literally 7-8 hours a day), but we patiently waited it out - for almost a year. Not sure how he would have reacted to being shocked, buzzed or beeped. Patient training is better imo.
You might want to do some reading on learning theory. Reinforce what you want repeated and punish what you don't want repeated. Extinction works unless it's for something that is self−rewarding. The Ecollar allows for both reinforcement and punishment. Few other tools do.
Mind telling us how a tool used in training "goes against training?"
If we punish a dog, they see it as attention, whether positive or negative. So a shock could very well halt training by giving the dog some form of attention. If that makes sense.
People have recommended it for our GSD when he whined (literally 7-8 hours a day), but we patiently waited it out - for almost a year. Not sure how he would have reacted to being shocked, buzzed or beeped.
I'd bet that you rewarded his whining with attention whether you thought you were doing so or not. It's all but impossible to completely ignore this from a dog. Did you investigate potential medical causes for his whining or did you just pretend to ignore it?
For some things, like this whining, if you're willing to put up with it, it really makes no difference how long it takes to stop (or even if it never stops). Would you wait for a year if he consistently rushed the door, got out, failed to recall and you lived on a busy street? How about if he was aggressive towards your children or other pets?
MaggieRoseLee;
I love them. I'll always use them. BUT before I ever put the collar on my dog I read up on them said:
:thumbup:
Thanks to the e-collar Benny and I cam enjoy off leash hikes and beaches. He has a very good recall and I seldom have to even give a stim. I find myself praising him more than correcting these days. Like Maggie and other have said one must take the time to learn how to use it properly. It is just a tool and like any tool can be misused. I get very upset at people who see who well behaved Benny is and ask to borrow that "shock collar" for the weekend to teach their dog to behave.
I also like the fact that depending on what you are doing with the e-collar, a lot of times the dog thinks the corrections are environmental.....you can't get that with any other collar. Just my 2 cents.
I'm counting on that for my reactive girl. It's taking a while to 'load' the collar with the vibration as a marker but once that's done we can move onto the next step. I highly recommend finding a good trainer experienced with e-collars so you get the full benefit from it and use it correctly.
I'm excited that there is a solution in the horizon for her and I have a trainer to help me. I have a dogtra (can't remember the model).
I think people need to get past the "frying your dog" mentality and realize that the stim used appropriately is not more uncomfortable than a prong or a choke collar and that the e-collar is doing LESS damage to their necks and trachea than the other correction collars. When used improperly those collars can crush the trachea, puncture the neck, and neck their spine out of alignment at their neck.
ALL collars can cause damage when used inappropriately. It is not the fault of the collar...it is the fault of the person.
Plus I would like to lobby to change the name from shock to stim, there is no shock involved. I like to use the analogy "it's like sticking your tongue on a 9 volt battery"......am I the only one who has done that? lol I can hold the collar on my fingers and feel the tingle...far less pain than a prong. I'm not against prongs or any training method and I will use tham all in the right setting.
It is the least "invasive" for my soft girl. Less personal also. Really like it for my dogs who need some proofing but are super sensitive to correction.
I've never owned an ecollar (not against it, just haven't been compelled to fork over the cash for one yet). My female is soft & sensitive too. I might try an ecollar for her in the future
I have a question that I'm sure someone could answer Which model would you recommend for me (need a 2 dog set). Its not that money is no object, but I expect to spend a pretty penny and don't have an issue paying alot for the right tool now than risk needing to re-buy down the road
Any particular model or things to consider? I live near the sea, so I'd highly prefer 316 stainless hardware (probably not available) but 304 would be acceptable. Its gotta be able to deal with salt in the air.
It depends on the range you want and how much money you want to spend. Dogtra service reps are very helpful you want to talk to one. I have a 200NCP and wanted longer prongs, which someone told me was not possible (I think someone on here). Dogtra sent out the 3/4" immediately and the rep was very nice and helpful.
None of dogtra's collars are out of the price range I'm willing to spend. I had already more or less decided on dogtra as they seem to be the standard people go to.
I have the dogtra 1900 and it works great for my girl - I got the 1/2 mi range because we mostly use it in the woods, which decreases the range. The trouble with their 2 dog system (and I don't know if other brands are different or not) is that there is only one stim setting - so either both dogs get the same level of stim or you have to adjust the rheostat with each stim, which I don't see working well. My girl is at a 3-8 out of 127, and I haven't started my new male on one yet, but I'm not liking the chances of him working at exactly the same level. I am planning on buying another single dog unit and just carrying two remotes (and covering one in orange tape or something!)
ETA - I do love the adjustability of the Dogtra though - my girl works on such a low level that I can't even feel her high end, so fine tweaks are very important to me!
See thats the sort of stuff I need to have pointed out to me. So none of the 2 dog units can have independent settings? I KNOW for a fact my male is gonna need a much higher stim than my female. Its that way with all other training devices so I invision this being the same... and an accidental hard stim on my female will be pretty counter productive, and if I have to adjust the setting between stim's, I'm def gonna miss the timing and eventually will screw up and deliver way too much to the female
I have no idea. Maybe to sell you more collars? For training, you obviously just need one since you will be working one dog at a time (Tri-tronics have collars that you can match up to three different receivers - color coded red, blue, black - so you can work three dogs with one remote ... but obviously one dog at a time). Now if you are just out walking and have them both on ecollar, then it gets complicated and I actually think in that case, it would be easier to have two remotes (instead of fumbling around switching back and forth between the different receivers on one remote).
Good news! They stopped threading the antennae through the collar strap quite some time ago. Now you can cut the collar strap to whatever length you like. All the antennae are internal now.
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